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Manual or Automatic?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:52 pm
by harrisonad
I always prefer manual editing using my favorite editor, the Editplus 2.12, because of 'supreme' control over your codes. But my friends always brag about using Macromedia Dream Weaver in all their work (or to do the work for them) where in they said is faster way of doing things.

Though I am not affected as well by can i get some opinions from you guys?

What is really the best way for a "GURU-type" php coding and designs, manual or automatic?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:05 pm
by rehfeld
well, dreamweaver and the like can definately be a much faster way to pound out webpages.

ive tried dreamweavers php coding, and at best imo its terrible lol
for simple things i wont deny that it works, and can be fast to achieve basic functionality,
but the code gets so complicated so quickly, and so ugly.....theres no "elegance" to it.

that being said, i hand code nearly everything.
but if my job was pounding out tons simple html webpages,
i would use dreaweaver or similar. but dreamweaver for php
imo is just horrible. its html isnt exactly"nice" either, but it
usually displays correctly in most browsers

but i havent coded any tag soup like html for a long time, so
im always using a hand editor cause i generally try to code things semantically and, i generally stick to strict doctypes, which dreamweaver doesnt support (to my knowledge)

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:08 pm
by Benjamin
I love Crimson editor. It is very fast, colors the code well, and has tabs up on top so it makes it easy to modify multiple files. HTMLKit is great for html because it has a nice autocomplete feature, but they are like Netscape in the sense that they try to add too many features. I have never used Editplus.

I would never use an application that tries to format or write code for me, and I never use tabs. I indent code using 2 spaces. I end lines with no spaces and 1 line feed.

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:12 pm
by Benjamin
I have to add something as well. I frankly think it's funny that people would pay aprox $350 for dreamweaver, and then take classes on how to use it. In my opinion, if you know how to write good code, and you build up a library, you could easily build websites faster by handcoding them vs using dreamweaver or a similar program.

Re:

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:13 pm
by harrisonad
Like stated, Macromedia Dream Weaver is surely great for HTML but for PHP, it's blocking your talents :lol:

Thank you everyone!

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:16 pm
by Benjamin
Someone said, "People who use WYSIWYG editors are just wannabe coders"

RE

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:19 pm
by harrisonad
forgive me for being ignorant but what this means?:
agtlewis wrote:Someone said, "People who use WYSIWYG editors are just wannabe coders"
Thanks.

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:25 pm
by Benjamin
WYSIWYG stands for, "What You See Is What You Get".

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:44 pm
by kettle_drum
I agree with agtlewis - once you have made a few sites you soon build up a powerful array of code that then makes developing any future site a breeze - its just a question of building up that library to begin with.

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:52 pm
by Benjamin
Thank you kettle_drum, I appreciate that!

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:59 pm
by timvw
real coders don't do any html at all, they only deliver the required variables to the view part of the system.. . :P

for generating html there are a lot of <span style='color:blue' title='I&#39;m naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> editors out there... but i still have to find one that does what i want it to do. my favorite tool is therefore my brain ;) but if other ppl find themselves to be more productive using tool X, don't let me make them stop using tool X.

for generating php code i prefer phpeclipse.de and syn.sf.net (something like crimson editor and ultraedit) and in a shell i prefer vim

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:26 pm
by Benjamin
LMAO --- timvw, or should I say "Master", html is still considered "coding", but other than that I found your post to be quite amusing lol.

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:50 pm
by andre_c
I used to use Dreameweaver for editing PHP (only on code view, of course), because that's how I started making pages.
But now that I have more experience I have found that the fastest way for ME to write code is vim.
I found a wysiwyg editor helpful for repetitive stuff, but if your a good programmer, you try to avoid repetition.

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:49 am
by timvw
btw, vim can be used for repetitive stuff to.. thats why i like the . and the n

oh, and this is also a nice resource:

http://www.schlitt.info/applications/bl ... VIM-2.html

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:54 am
by patrikG
Dreamweaver is nice and implements standard and thus repetitive tasks. For desinging - great tool, for programming, I don't see the point.