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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:52 pm
by Moocat
I found the speed (java based) and bugs and crashing to be disheartening to say the least. I jumped on the PHP Designer 2005 bandwagon after using Crimson Editor for the longest time (utilized them free tools :)

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:59 pm
by alvinphp
I would definitely get Zend 5 (which is in Beta now). I have been playing around with it and it is pretty impressive.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:58 pm
by infolock
feyd wrote:funny.. the developers I know personally dislike Zend Studio.. we only use it here when absolutely necessary (which is rare).. so I can't recommend it considering the price and perceived functionality is brings..
that, actually, is quite funny. We use the professional version by the way.

Feyd, I don't see how you can't like it.

But for those of you who aren't sure, i'll give you a few of the features that I love right off the top of my head :

1) Project Control - Zend allows you to create projects. A project could be anything from a simply user authentication script, to a complete CMS tool. The great thing about this is, when you use this feature, you can easily and quickly manage what files youa re working on that belong to the project you open.

So instead of having to search through hundreds of directories for files pertaining to a project you worked on, you simply load the project file and it loads all the files related to it for you.

2) Inspector - This utility has made my life so much easier, that I don't think I could use another app. Basically, this tool breaks apart a class you have into a tree structure. The limbs are actually functions you have that are contained within that function.

You can double click the name of a function, and it will take you STRAIGHT to the line where that function lives. No more searching for functions, it takes y ou right to it. It also has a nice right-click feature that allows you to add comments to it that are phpdocumentor-friendly. Not only this, but it also shows you the included classes or files you have extended or included within any file/class , and also displays them int eh same tree-like structure.


3) Auto Complete - This feature also rules. If you don't know what a function does, or you can't remember the exact spelling of a function, you can type the first few letters and it will display a list of possible function names, their syntax, and their descriptions.

So say for instance you need to know what mysql_fetch_assoc() does. if you type mysql it will automatically attempt to find any type of php-related functions that work with and for mysql, and show you all the possible commands. once you select one, it will still have the window open and give you the correct syntax, and an explanation of what this command does.

But it doesn't only work for php! It also works for html, javascript, css, AND custom classes.

So say you have a class that you included within your script, but youc an't remember the function name, or the syntax it uses, or whatever. If you type simply $Object_naem-> it will automatically list the functions available to you for that class.

VERY nice feature.

4) Analyze Code (Debugger) - The debugger is a great feature as well. If you want to konw if you have undeclared variables, incorrect syntax usage, unused variables, variables called before they were defined, this tool tells you. And it works on a line per line basis. The ONLY thing this debugger doesn't do as far as I can tell is tell you WHERE you have a missing } at.

It ALSO tells you if your coding structure is wrong by creating red dots and commas where problems lie withing your application.

5) SQL Management - This tool even goes so far as to allowing you to have a management console tab for your database. You click the tab, and presto!, ur connected. You can view, edit, and manage your entire database/tables.

6) PHPDocumentor - This is also pretty nice. It will take code you have commented, and export it straight to html, text, pdf, and may other formats. The view it creates is like an encyclopedia for your class giving you an index page consisting of all the functions, variables, etc in your project, and looks like you actually took the time to do all the hard work.


These are only 6 pro's to using Zend. if you are in a professional enviornment, it's not a requirement, but it makes developer's lives a lot better.

My coding has went up from using simply Zend pro, and for anyone to say it's not worth the money either a) doesn't have a big enough demand or cash flow for having a great coding enviorment, or b) simply don't know what they are talking about.

but you can make your own decision. if you like the demo, great. if you don't, i'd suggest you to look and play with it a little more. Cuz if you don't explore what Zend Studio can offer you, you are seriously going to regret it later on when you finally do.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:06 pm
by neophyte
I like zend studio. It's my fav for all the reasons infolock stated. It's worth the money. Plus it is cross-platform. If your going to develop on WinHoes my second runner up would be phpEdit. But if you want it on the cheap and for free I've not found anything better than QuantaPlus on Linux.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:25 pm
by Nathaniel
I tried the Zend Studio demo once, and found it bloated. I hate bloat, I stopped using it and went back to the free Crimson Editor.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:19 pm
by feyd
infolock wrote:1) Project Control
Any decent editor has some form of this feature.
infolock wrote:2) Inspector
a decent feature, however available in at least a few other editors
infolock wrote:3) Auto Complete
yes, a nice feature.. but quite buggy. At least I think it is. If your code includes other code into your library, it doesn't understand that. Thereby not sensing all the functionality you have magically included.
infolock wrote:4) Analyze Code (Debugger)
We've run into many issues with their debugger breaking down on our code which, without the debugger, runs perfectly. Granted, some of this is because of some very random errors php likes to toss at our code where duplicate installs of everything choose to run the code differently when there are no variables in how the code should run..
infolock wrote:5) SQL Management
It's not useful to us.
infolock wrote:6) PHPDocumentor
although widely accepted and used, we aren't major fans of it or its syntax choices. Since we are using PHP 5+ we're using reflection to do a lot of the grunt work that'd normally be involved along with a much more powerful editor to create the text shown.

Our biggest complaints are that it requires Java and that it's bloated.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:21 pm
by RobertPaul
The next version is in Beta. You should be able grab that and kinda evaluate it. I wouldn't rush to judge its stability based on a Beta release but the features should be there.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:24 pm
by neophyte
Anyone else like QuantaPlus?

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:40 pm
by andre_c
:D I like Quanta too (i only use it when eclipse has problems with FTP or DAV)

Most of the features that are worth having (except for the debugger, which is a little buggy anyway) are already available for free in a lot of editors (i guess feyd already said that)

i've used it and i don't think it's worth the money
also i didn't like the way it looked on linux, but that may not matter to you

Worth!

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:27 am
by rorycanyon
worth in my point

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:02 am
by infolock
feyd wrote:
infolock wrote:
infolock wrote:3) Auto Complete
yes, a nice feature.. but quite buggy. At least I think it is. If your code includes other code into your library, it doesn't understand that. Thereby not sensing all the functionality you have magically included.
Never seen a bug at all with the auto complete. no idea what you are talking about.

feyd wrote:
infolock wrote:4) Analyze Code (Debugger)
We've run into many issues with their debugger breaking down on our code which, without the debugger, runs perfectly. Granted, some of this is because of some very random errors php likes to toss at our code where duplicate installs of everything choose to run the code differently when there are no variables in how the code should run..
The debugger, i've never had a problem with it. I've run over 300 scripts through it and never had an issue.
feyd wrote:
infolock wrote:5) SQL Management
It's not useful to us.
To each his own. Works great for me and saves me time from having multiple windows open to use it with.

feyd wrote:
infolock wrote:6) PHPDocumentor
although widely accepted and used, we aren't major fans of it or its syntax choices. Since we are using PHP 5+ we're using reflection to do a lot of the grunt work that'd normally be involved along with a much more powerful editor to create the text shown.

Our biggest complaints are that it requires Java and that it's bloated.
Bloated? That's kinda silly wouldn't you say? As for it requiring Java, the only platform ur gonna have a problem with that on is Linux, and all you would have to do is install the Java package (takes about 3 minutes).


Dunno, I think you really haven't even given it a chance and have made up your mind based on 3rd party opinions. You should re-evaluate this yourself next time maybe ;)

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:32 pm
by feyd
I've spent over 20 hours in it personally.. that's more than enough time for me to make up my own mind about it. Their IDE doesn't help us much at all. We are pushing the boundries of where and how php operates well beyond the normal limits.

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:27 pm
by Charles256
i just tried out zend studio today and i rather like it so pft!:-D

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:31 am
by infolock
feyd wrote:I've spent over 20 hours in it personally.. that's more than enough time for me to make up my own mind about it. Their IDE doesn't help us much at all. We are pushing the boundries of where and how php operates well beyond the normal limits.
as are we. we have over 3000 websites we maintain world wide, and all of us use zend. and to boot, none of us have ever had a problem with it. i just honestly don't think your opinions are valid, but who knows i've been wrong before. anyways, to each his own.


Edit : Let me reitterate. You give me an example of it not working properly, and i'll check it on my end. Or better yet, give me a working example that I can try out that will produce a *problem* and we'll see on my end. Perhaps you were using an older version of Zend that has been replaced over the years?

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:49 am
by redmonkey
I find Zend's lack of user definable tools very disappointing. Their project control is, like most others, basic.

I really don't think that their SQL integration could/should be termed as 'SQL Management', it allows you to connect to a database and issue queries against it but that is about it.

Most IDEs offer code browsing and object inspecting. Auto complete (although a nice feature) is (in Zend's case) more annoying than useful, I find the default delay to be instant, and setting a delay of anything other than default seems to invoke a hidden random delay feature.

The default syntax highlighting (imo) stinks of 'Mickey Mouse' and the configurating of doesn't allow me to apply a bolded type face to matching brackets/parens etc.. instead I have to put up with coloured blocks which I find irritates me.

Having to open the preferences pane to switch between remote and local debugging is time consuming.

I find the GUI to have an overall 'clunky' feeling about it, not sure why but everytime I look at it, it reminds me of Speak 'n' Spell.

For this app to run at a reasonable pace your machine requires a certain level of 'whizz-bang', I run many applications at the same time and Zend is just too resource hungry for my liking.

These are just some of thoughts I have on Zend Studio, there are more.

I have spent time with the trial version on many occassions but it just doesn't suit me.