Zend Studio: Worth the Money?
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Charles256
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Before you read this, I'm not flaming. Just some of these points are not valid, and some are.

I think you would have a much better life with emacs on linux. Some of the linux guys use it for everything and refuse to change to anything else, so that may even be another alternative. But for a platform built to allow a programmer to code with php, Zend (imo) is the best.
i'll not even go there..redmonkey wrote:I find Zend's lack of user definable tools very disappointing. Their project control is, like most others, basic.
True. PHPMyAdmin offers a much larger set of tool to manage, and MySQL Buddy is also a hell of a lot nicer. Point taken. But it's nice to have an area to issue requests to MySQL without the need to alt-tab or whatever... Most of my mysql administration goes through my code, and not through mysql itself. So, for a DB Admin perspective, yeah, its not exactly the best..redmonkey wrote: I really don't think that their SQL integration could/should be termed as 'SQL Management', it allows you to connect to a database and issue queries against it but that is about it.
Never seen a bad issue with Zend. You can always turn it off if you don't like it (they don't make you use it). But i find it useful and will continue to have it enabled.redmonkey wrote: Most IDEs offer code browsing and object inspecting. Auto complete (although a nice feature) is (in Zend's case) more annoying than useful, I find the default delay to be instant, and setting a delay of anything other than default seems to invoke a hidden random delay feature.
Again, this is a feature you can customize. I found the default myself rather "icky", but after re-configuring the color schemes to my preference, it works pretty nicely. Not to mention, they don't limit you to 256 colors as most do, but allow the whole millions of colors in the case of "picky" people.redmonkey wrote: The default syntax highlighting (imo) stinks of 'Mickey Mouse' and the configurating of doesn't allow me to apply a bolded type face to matching brackets/parens etc.. instead I have to put up with coloured blocks which I find irritates me.
point taken.redmonkey wrote: Having to open the preferences pane to switch between remote and local debugging is time consuming.
That's ridiculous. Nuff said.redmonkey wrote: I find the GUI to have an overall 'clunky' feeling about it, not sure why but everytime I look at it, it reminds me of Speak 'n' Spell.
This application (on the professional standpoint) is meant to offer lots to a developer. if you are using a bogged down machine, that isn't zend's fault, that's your own fault for not upgrading your machine to a more performance-ready state. If you don't have it in that state, then i'm sure you aren't exactly happy with your life on the computer anyways. If you want to take full advantage of almost any fully-loaded app, you must have a machine that can handle it. My machine at home is over 4 years old. it has exactly 500mb DDR and a 1800 AMD processor. This is MORE than enough for me.redmonkey wrote: For this app to run at a reasonable pace your machine requires a certain level of 'whizz-bang', I run many applications at the same time and Zend is just too resource hungry for my liking.
Some nice points, but like feyd's, some not entirely true. Each person has a preference to coding enviroments, that is why you should always explore other options if your machine and money pocket aren't exactly up to par.redmonkey wrote: These are just some of thoughts I have on Zend Studio, there are more.
I have spent time with the trial version on many occassions but it just doesn't suit me.
I think you would have a much better life with emacs on linux. Some of the linux guys use it for everything and refuse to change to anything else, so that may even be another alternative. But for a platform built to allow a programmer to code with php, Zend (imo) is the best.
An opinion is only valid when the the opinion is accurate. If your opinion is inaccurate, your stand is that of false information and false reasoning, making it therefore invalid.feyd wrote:My opinions aren't valid? Everyone's opinion is valid. period.
To clarify, all because your opinion says that 1+1 is 3, doesn't make it valid. If that were the case, I could redefine world physics and, going with the McDondald's theme, "have it my way"
Auto complete is a nice feature, and I do tend to use it, not so much for auto completion as such but to remind of the argument order. (especially with PHP I can never remember if it's $needle, $haystack, $subject or some other order so I do find it useful). The problem I have with it is, in it's default state it pops up almost instantly after every key press, I would prefer if I could have have it pop up after a short delay (the fact I'd stop typing may indicate I could do with a reminder). I spent a bit of time trying to set a reasonable (for my liking) delay but failed miserably. It either popped up too quickly, or it hung around for ages before popping up. No matter what I did with the delay time the results seemed unpredictable.infolock wrote:Never seen a bad issue with Zend. You can always turn it off if you don't like it (they don't make you use it). But i find it useful and will continue to have it enabled.
I spent some time configuring the syntax highlighting and got most of it to my liking but, it seems the only options you have for setting highlighting of matching brackets/parens is to set the background colour. This results in an ugly block cursor look on matching parens (imo), or alternatively you have to live without that particular matching by setting the background to the same colour as the documents background..infolock wrote:Again, this is a feature you can customize. I found the default myself rather "icky", but after re-configuring the color schemes to my preference, it works pretty nicely. Not to mention, they don't limit you to 256 colors as most do, but allow the whole millions of colors in the case of "picky" people.
No, it's not ridiculous, it's my opinion. The fact that you disagree doesn't automatically deem my opinion ridiculous. I don't agree with all your opinions, however, I have granted you with enough respect to not just blatanly tar you as some idiot by dismissing your opinions as ridiculous.infolock wrote:That's ridiculous. Nuff said.
In a similar vein to above, I'm not raising points, I'm expressing my opion therefore there is no true or false, or right or wrong.infolock wrote:Some nice points, but like feyd's, some not entirely true.
My current development machine is a 3.6GHz Intel with 2Gb ram hooked up to 4 monitors. I'm perfectly happy with that. The last time I checked Zend my machine was a 2GHz intel with 1Gb ram and two monitors, it ran it OK but it was still noticeably slower than any other IDE I was running at the time.infolock wrote:This application (on the professional standpoint) is meant to offer lots to a developer. if you are using a bogged down machine, that isn't zend's fault, that's your own fault for not upgrading your machine to a more performance-ready state. If you don't have it in that state, then i'm sure you aren't exactly happy with your life on the computer anyways. If you want to take full advantage of almost any fully-loaded app, you must have a machine that can handle it. My machine at home is over 4 years old. it has exactly 500mb DDR and a 1800 AMD processor. This is MORE than enough for me.
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Charles256
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- Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:06 pm
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Charles256
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- Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:06 pm
okay..while I got mad love for zend (it soo beats the holy hell out of dreamweaver i did notice one thing...)
index.php
form.php
when i run the debugger on form.php the debugger gets really <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span>:-D even though form.php is included into index.php. so it does have it's flaws...but still i recommend it, just remember you are smarter than the computer. no matter what c++ tells you 1/3 is not 0! 
index.php
Code: Select all
function stategen($o,$test)
{
$result = "<option value='$o'";
if ($test==$o) $result .= ' selected';
$result .= ">$o</option><br />";
echo $result;
}Code: Select all
stategen("Alabama","$State");
stategen("Alaska","$State");
stategen("Arizona","$State");
stategen("Arkansas","$State");
stategen("California","$State");
you getthe idea...I really wanted to avoid jumping into this thread, but this really deserves a community response.infolock wrote:i just honestly don't think your opinions are valid, but who knows i've been wrong before. anyways, to each his own.
ALL opinions are valid - *especially* if you don't agree with them.
In a thread asking for people's opinions about whether a product is worth the cost, its especially important to respect other viewpoints.
Lets knock down your contention however, that his opinions are invalid..
First he makes an observation:
I suspect you don't know the developers he knows personally, or work where he does, so you can't disprove this statement. This statement alone is him directly answering the original poster: He wouldn't recommend it.Feyd wrote:the developers I know personally dislike Zend Studio.. we only use it here when absolutely necessary (which is rare).. so I can't recommend it considering the price and perceived functionality is brings..
Next, he makes a complaint about a bug:
He clearly states that he *thinks* the feature is buggy, and even gives a sufficient description to recreate the issue in your copy: Include other code into your library, and see if autocomplete uses it. If not, that fits his definition of buggy - a fairly reasonable statement.Feyd wrote:Auto Complete
yes, a nice feature.. but quite buggy. At least I think it is. If your code includes other code into your library, it doesn't understand that. Thereby not sensing all the functionality you have magically included.
Here Feyd makes clear that it is a fairly specific combination that causes his issue with the debugger: Duplicate installs of everything runs differently, causing random errors. Clearly, its a difficult to reproduce issue, but one that Feyd has encountered. Thats useful information to share for the original poster, and in general. Would have been nice to get more detail, but it sounds difficult to pin down anyways. (And considering that you'd use a debugger to track down such things, I can see how a bug IN the debugger would make it triply difficult!)Feyd wrote:Analyze Code (Debugger)
We've run into many issues with their debugger breaking down on our code which, without the debugger, runs perfectly. Granted, some of this is because of some very random errors php likes to toss at our code where duplicate installs of everything choose to run the code differently when there are no variables in how the code should run..
First, you disagree with him on this:Feyd wrote:SQL Management It's not useful to us.
But then you agree with him later:infolock wrote:To each his own. Works great for me and saves me time from having multiple windows open to use it with.
And of course, you agreed after another user shared the same opinion: Clearly, the opinion was both valid, and worthwhile to share. Even you did!infolock wrote:So, for a DB Admin perspective, yeah, its not exactly the best..
And finally..
Provably, this is true. It requires Java, and it has a large memory footprint. Thats not one you can invalidate. So, instead..Feyd wrote:Our biggest complaints are that it requires Java and that it's bloated.
You call it silly. "Silly" is an opinion, and I'd make the same claim about many of your compliments for Zend. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that it is a valid claim. The discussion about how easy it is to install Java is entirely inaccurate in a number of distributions, and presumes that the user *wants* to install Java - something that is not neccesarily accurate.infolock wrote:Bloated? That's kinda silly wouldn't you say? As for it requiring Java, the only platform ur gonna have a problem with that on is Linux, and all you would have to do is install the Java package (takes about 3 minutes).
Regardless, the points: Requires Java, Large memory footprint; All stand. You didn't argue either.
Every point he has made is provably true, or true at least in his experience.
So whats invalid about his opinions?
If anything, your statements are less supported - as I've shown above.
I only posted to make clear that this community is built on *respect* of others opinions. Its a core rule of these forums, and regardless of moderator reaction, the community (and I'm part of it) should stand up against comments like "Your opinion is invalid".
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Charles256
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Hmm. So I refuted all your points, and your response is a personal attack, and the statement that you don't need to repeat yourself?infolock wrote:Roja, the only thing you bring to a forum is distaste and a 14 year old mentality. move on.
i made my points and need not reitterate. the things you point out have no bearing on this forum at all. kthnxcomeagain.
Sounds like you continue to prove my main point: You aren't showing respect for others - a key rule on this forum.
- RobertGonzalez
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- Location: Fremont, CA, USA
Dude, did our beloved forum turn into an ASP developers forum? I haven't read conflict and argument like this since I was on the ASP.NET forum. Opinions are what they are... what people believe based upon their experience or the experience of others whose opinions they believe are valid. We all have them, a lot of us post them and some of us value them. In this case, a user is seeking them. Why not give the user the opinion and do away with the individual attacks? Just my two cents on that.
As far as Zend Studio goes, I have been a user of it since 3.2. I am currently running 4.2 and have not yet downloaded 5. It is a wonderful application if you like an environment that incorporates your most commonly used tools (DB connectivity, code completion, debugging, documentation, syntax highlighting andproject development) AND if you can live with the way the IDE presents those tools. For me, it was a slam dunk. PHP Coder, PHP Edit and others were OK, but when I got my hands on Zend Studio, I uninstalled all the others. The features that ZS offers are just what I was looking for and made good sense for me to use it.
Some drawbacks to the application have already been mentioned: It is a resource hog so if your system is not beefy it might choke; It's preference settings can be tricky or even annoying if you don't like what it offers; It is a little pricy (I got my license throughMySQL.com at a discount after downloading the 3.2 trial. Since then all subsequent downloads have been free); It may take some getting used to.
Given what has been offered here so far, you may want to look around some more, download some trial version, run them and see for yourself which is better for your needs and preferences.
Hope this helps. Now can't we all just get along? (c) 1990 Rodney King
As far as Zend Studio goes, I have been a user of it since 3.2. I am currently running 4.2 and have not yet downloaded 5. It is a wonderful application if you like an environment that incorporates your most commonly used tools (DB connectivity, code completion, debugging, documentation, syntax highlighting andproject development) AND if you can live with the way the IDE presents those tools. For me, it was a slam dunk. PHP Coder, PHP Edit and others were OK, but when I got my hands on Zend Studio, I uninstalled all the others. The features that ZS offers are just what I was looking for and made good sense for me to use it.
Some drawbacks to the application have already been mentioned: It is a resource hog so if your system is not beefy it might choke; It's preference settings can be tricky or even annoying if you don't like what it offers; It is a little pricy (I got my license throughMySQL.com at a discount after downloading the 3.2 trial. Since then all subsequent downloads have been free); It may take some getting used to.
Given what has been offered here so far, you may want to look around some more, download some trial version, run them and see for yourself which is better for your needs and preferences.
Hope this helps. Now can't we all just get along? (c) 1990 Rodney King
- n00b Saibot
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Roja, I love you for thisRoja wrote:I really wanted to avoid jumping into this thread, but this really deserves a community response.
ALL opinions are valid - *especially* if you don't agree with them.