PSD to 100% XHTML code...

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alex.barylski
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PSD to 100% XHTML code...

Post by alex.barylski »

How much should it cost to have a PSD file converted into XHTML strict code?

Would it be cheaper if I first spliced PSD into images and wrote the HTML only to request the HTML be converted into compliant XHTML?

I need code to pass w3c compliance tests as I want to show this on my web site... :)

How much would an XHTML expert likely ask for on an hourly rate?

I ask this, only because my interest in markup languages stops at html...so long as I can do what I need done visually I could care less about compliance for my own purposes and I have no interest in learning markup as my dedication is soley geared towards software development...

I have only a slight interest in markup, design, etc...

So, to convert a single HTML file into compliant XHTML how much should it cost?

I should also note I would want the XHTML to use as much external CSS as possible as well making my website load faster...

How long would it take (for a website with anywhere from 5 to 20 tables, at most 4-5 tables deep in nesting) how much should it cost, whats the average going rate for XHTML/CSS wizards?

Cheers :)

Suggestions?
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shoebappa
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Post by shoebappa »

I wouldn't think that slicing it up and making html in tables is going to help. Kind of a little different way of thinking about what are images, regular bg colors, and background images. Not much, but definately different.

As for the pricing, I wouldn't know, but I'd imagine you could find a student somewhere pretty cheap. The younger folks who didn't grow up with tables are more likely to be solid in xhtml. I just made my first one and know where you're coming from, definately see the advantages, just wish it wasn't so damn quirky. Not much I hate more than debugging css in browsers.

Also gotta weigh compliance and compatability... Making a compliant xhtml file isn't the hard part, making it look the same in the most common browsers is the pain in the ass...
Roja
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Re: PSD to 100% XHTML code...

Post by Roja »

Hockey wrote:How much should it cost to have a PSD file converted into XHTML strict code?

Would it be cheaper if I first spliced PSD into images and wrote the HTML only to request the HTML be converted into compliant XHTML?
Considerably cheaper. Converting images into presentable html is one thing, converting html to xhtml is entirely another.
Hockey wrote:I need code to pass w3c compliance tests as I want to show this on my web site... :)
Is *XHTML* a critical factor, or is html strict sufficient? The difference between the two for end-users is extremely small.
Hockey wrote:How much would an XHTML expert likely ask for on an hourly rate?
Depends on the expert. Anywhere from $25-$50 an hour is reasonable.
Hockey wrote:So, to convert a single HTML file into compliant XHTML how much should it cost?
Totally depends on the file, the complexity, the goals, etc.

Keep in mind that you could post your design, and have people take a whack at helping fix the html compliance issues, allowing you to both improve, AND learn the common source of those issues, so you can avoid them in the future.
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Christopher
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Post by Christopher »

Does ImageReady output XHTML compliant code when it exports HTML with the sliced up image?

As long as you don't want to acutally edit the HTML later (or you brain can deal with crossing rowspans and colspans ;)) then it should be fine. I usually replace the "background" images that are created with a spacer GIF to clean things up a little.
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shoebappa
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Post by shoebappa »

I invisioned you having the webpage mocked up in photoshop, ready to be sliced and placed into html... I don't see how that slicing process would make it considerably cheaper. I'd imagine they'd have to go back and change some things, just depends on the layout.
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shoebappa
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Post by shoebappa »

I guess if using tables for layout it would be cheaper if you did it in whatever you know and they go and fix the non-valid areas, but then what's the advantage of going to xhtml? I thought the main drive of xhtml was to remove layout and styling from the html code, when if you're using tables for layout you ain't doing.
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Post by Roja »

shoebappa wrote:I invisioned you having the webpage mocked up in photoshop, ready to be sliced and placed into html... I don't see how that slicing process would make it considerably cheaper. I'd imagine they'd have to go back and change some things, just depends on the layout.
For starters, its two different jobs, and it requires two different tools. Using photoshop and imageready, converting images into workable html is one job. Taking html and making it compliant is another - a much easier one.
shoebappa wrote:I guess if using tables for layout it would be cheaper if you did it in whatever you know and they go and fix the non-valid areas, but then what's the advantage of going to xhtml? I thought the main drive of xhtml was to remove layout and styling from the html code, when if you're using tables for layout you ain't doing.
Thats the main drive of html-strict. The drive for xhtml is to help with machine processing of pages. Thats why I asked the OP if there is a specific desire for xhtml, or if html-strict would accomplish his goals.
alex.barylski
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Post by alex.barylski »

shoebappa wrote:I wouldn't think that slicing it up and making html in tables is going to help. Kind of a little different way of thinking about what are images, regular bg colors, and background images. Not much, but definately different.

As for the pricing, I wouldn't know, but I'd imagine you could find a student somewhere pretty cheap. The younger folks who didn't grow up with tables are more likely to be solid in xhtml. I just made my first one and know where you're coming from, definately see the advantages, just wish it wasn't so damn quirky. Not much I hate more than debugging css in browsers.

Also gotta weigh compliance and compatability... Making a compliant xhtml file isn't the hard part, making it look the same in the most common browsers is the pain in the ass...
I hear you on every level...especially your last remark...thus the reason I'd rather just hire someone who enjoyed CSS/XHTML...

Anything short of Javascript on the client side...and I loose interest *real* quick :)
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Post by hawleyjr »

All of my 'new' designs start out as photoshop files and find their ways to being layers of div tags and style sheets. I would say on avg. (depending on the layout) one full day to 1 1/2 days worth of converting a photoshop file to tiny images and doing the CSS/XHTML part. The more I do the easier it is... :wink:
alex.barylski
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Re: PSD to 100% XHTML code...

Post by alex.barylski »

Considerably cheaper. Converting images into presentable html is one thing, converting html to xhtml is entirely another.
I should have elaborated...I didn't quite mean XHTML as the basics are pretty obvious...

I've always written HTML with small case and double quotes around the attribute values...I save single quotes for javascript strings, etc...

Just my personal convention...

I am more conerned with reducing file size via CSS and making the code as cross browser, cross platform, etc as possible...

My priorities are:
1) Renderability - IE and FF are absolute musts...if they don't look the same in each browser, I'll favour rendering over anything

2) Graceful degradation(sp?) so it still renders well in any browser available...only problem I see is my sites headers are often very flashy...as I favour *cool* over *total* SEO friendliness or cross platform-ness...

3) Pass some kind of w3c compliance test...preferably xhtml and not html strict...not sure what it entails, but the few kicks I've taken at it suggest some meta tags, language selection tags? etc...I'm not sure and can't honestly say i'm interested in knowing...

You have convinced me of the importance for some form of compliance, but I also need some officially recognized standards test which my sites will pass...

I would prefer xhtml/css compliance test...

4) Small, compact CSS driven layouts...
Is *XHTML* a critical factor, or is html strict sufficient? The difference between the two for end-users is extremely small.
I would like it to be xhtml...not html...
Depends on the expert. Anywhere from $25-$50 an hour is reasonable.
Hmmm...I can find software developers for $15 USD/hour with 4 year BSc. degrees...so I would be hard pressed paying an markup language expert anything more 20 or USD/hr...

Mind you...IMHO graphics design also isn't worth more than professional software development in terms of pay/hour as I know what it takes from a software developer standpoint...and what it takes from a graphics standpoint, as I am quite sufficient in Photoshop after 5 or so years *playing with it*

But there is a distinct difference between my work and amazing work...and every designer I thought had that *WOW* effect has demanded at least 70USD/hour 8O

Simple supply and demand I guess...so I'll pay what I have too...C'est La Vie :P
Keep in mind that you could post your design, and have people take a whack at helping fix the html compliance issues, allowing you to both improve, AND learn the common source of those issues, so you can avoid them in the future.
For my own web site, I will likely go that route, but if someone else is paying me...I think i'd rather just contract the work out...I hate switching from HTML mode to Photoshop mode to PHP mode...to SQL mode...to regex mode, etc...
There are very specific things I like to do and many I will only do if I have to...dealing with markup is one of them...

Cheers :)
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Re: PSD to 100% XHTML code...

Post by Roja »

Hockey wrote:
Depends on the expert. Anywhere from $25-$50 an hour is reasonable.
Hmmm...I can find software developers for $15 USD/hour with 4 year BSc. degrees...so I would be hard pressed paying an markup language expert anything more 20 or USD/hr...
If you knew the answer, and didn't want to hear a different answer, why did you ask the question? :)
Hockey wrote:
Keep in mind that you could post your design, and have people take a whack at helping fix the html compliance issues, allowing you to both improve, AND learn the common source of those issues, so you can avoid them in the future.
For my own web site, I will likely go that route, but if someone else is paying me...I think i'd rather just contract the work out...I hate switching from HTML mode to Photoshop mode to PHP mode...to SQL mode...to regex mode, etc...
There are very specific things I like to do and many I will only do if I have to...dealing with markup is one of them...

Cheers :)
Ah. Thats definitely different than what I grasped from your initial post. Understandable. Good luck with it.
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Oren
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Post by Oren »

I read most of the posts on this topic (but not all of them). I have to ask... Why don't you do it yourself? If you already know HTML then you can learn how to write valid XHTML in less than 5 minutes.

If you also need someone to take the picture you have and convert it into table-less design you can always contact me on MSN :wink:
alex.barylski
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Post by alex.barylski »

hawleyjr wrote:All of my 'new' designs start out as photoshop files and find their ways to being layers of div tags and style sheets. I would say on avg. (depending on the layout) one full day to 1 1/2 days worth of converting a photoshop file to tiny images and doing the CSS/XHTML part. The more I do the easier it is... :wink:
The quicker it should become too... :)

It only takes me a couple hours to splice and get the layout exatly as I want in HTML...

Never done a CSS layout, but is the whole point to reduce time in both development and download? :P
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RobertGonzalez
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Post by RobertGonzalez »

if you have the images sliced to how you want the final layout to be, it shouldn't be that hard to move the design into XHTML. There are few quirky nuances between IE and FF that irk me at times, but getting everything to render should not be that difficult or time consuming.
alex.barylski
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Post by alex.barylski »

Oren wrote:I read most of the posts on this topic (but not all of them). I have to ask... Why don't you do it yourself? If you already know HTML then you can learn how to write valid XHTML in less than 5 minutes.

If you also need someone to take the picture you have and convert it into table-less design you can always contact me on MSN :wink:
Perhaps, but it's not my area of interest...plain and simple...

I do enjoy playing aorund with HTML and Photoshop, etc...but as a hobby only...I get frustared very easily (especially in Photoshop) when I can do something I want to...

From a business perspective...for me anyways...it makes sense to outsource as much as possible as my area of interest and specialty is almost strictly development...no HTML, etc...

I can't stand having to deal with all the details :)
If you also need someone to take the picture you have and convert it into table-less design you can always contact me on MSN
I'll take note... ;)

Do you have a portfolio? How do I know you can convert any design I throw at you into xhtml/css compliant code? Will it render in both FF and IE identically, etc???
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