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Multi-column designs - coming to CSS3!!

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:24 pm
by Roja
The World Wide Web consortium’s (W3C) CSS working group recently released a draft of a new multi column layout module--to be included (with possible modifications) into the CSS 3 specs. For those web developers that have been lamenting the lack of adequate multi column support in current supported versions of the CSS specs, this is an exciting and welcome addition.
http://blogs.pathf.com/uxd/2006/07/mult ... _la_1.html

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:58 pm
by Luke
Oh man that looks SO nice! :D :D

EDIT: I spoke too soon... I should have read the entire article... kinda useless.

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:25 pm
by Roja
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:EDIT: I spoke too soon... I should have read the entire article... kinda useless.
Useless!?!?

Its fantastic. It will enable a ton of multi-column layout and content design. Why do you think its useless?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:36 pm
by Luke
Maybe I interpreted it wrong. It read like just a way to set up more than one text column (like a newspaper). For text rather than layout... which would be useless, because that's what the scroll-bar is for. Let me re-read that bad-boy.

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:42 pm
by Roja
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:Maybe I interpreted it wrong. It read like just a way to set up more than one text column (like a newspaper). For text rather than layout...
Thats exactly right.
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:which would be useless, because that's what the scroll-bar is for.
No, the scroll bar does not reflow text across columns to use both vertical and horizontal space better. It simply scrolls a single text box.

Its tremendously useful for sites doing this type of layout. Its not a panacea for all "3-column layout" problems. There are already great solutions for that - as soon as IE follows the standards. :)

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:45 pm
by Luke
I honestly don't see the point of columns on a computer screen... there is a scroll-bar... scroll down. That is what it's for, Maybe other devices, but not computer screens.

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:50 pm
by Roja
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I honestly don't see the point of columns on a computer screen... there is a scroll-bar... scroll down. That is what it's for, Maybe other devices, but not computer screens.
There is a news site that I get linked to now and then, I can't think of the url honestly, but it looks EXACTLY like the described layout, and it is fantastic.

I suspect the amount of code they had to use to get it workign was obscene, so hopefully, this will improve things.

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:47 pm
by RobertGonzalez
I may not be reading it right, but it seems like the columns elements will overtake the body layout. It just seems that you will be able to have three columns, but nothing above or below, unless you want to float divs, which defeats the purpose of the columns seeing as right now, multi-column layouts are groups of floating divs.

I like the concept. If Microsoft would adhere to standards in their software then this would be a really handy feature.

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:22 am
by matthijs
Yeah, looks like a nice addition to the tools we already have. In some cases, this will be usefull.

However, first I wonder if this multi-colum module will be needed by the time IE supports it (2010?). Will all websites not be one big chunk of ajaxified stuff? Everything rendered by javascript/Dom, so css isn't an issue anyway? (hint: this is a joke/ironic)

Second, I'm afraid this module can and will be misused. You know, designers design a nice multi-column layout in photoshop for a standard-size browser of 1280x900px, the management likes it and oeps! sorry for all people with smaller screens, mobile devices, screen-zooming, alternative devices, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:08 am
by feyd
matthijs wrote:Second, I'm afraid this module can and will be misused. You know, designers design a nice multi-column layout in photoshop for a standard-size browser of 1280x900px, the management likes it and oeps! sorry for all people with smaller screens, mobile devices, screen-zooming, alternative devices, etc.
That will likely always be an issue, regardless of the existance of CSS controls to help create them. Poor design decisions happens all the time everywhere.

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:39 am
by Roja
matthijs wrote:Second, I'm afraid this module can and will be misused. You know, designers design a nice multi-column layout in photoshop for a standard-size browser of 1280x900px, the management likes it and oeps! sorry for all people with smaller screens, mobile devices, screen-zooming, alternative devices, etc.
Actually, with this design, on smaller devices, it will simply scroll like its one large text area. In other words, it will be an improvement over the current method which splits them into multiple text areas to get the desired layout.

Of course, people could put too much text on one page, but thats a problem regardless of the implementation.

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:55 am
by Oren
matthijs wrote:Second, I'm afraid this module can and will be misused. You know, designers design a nice multi-column layout in photoshop for a standard-size browser of 1280x900px, the management likes it and oeps! sorry for all people with smaller screens, mobile devices, screen-zooming, alternative devices, etc.
Since when the standard is 1280x900 [px]? The standard is currently 1024x768 [px]. Personally, I use 1280x1024 [px].

Here are few facts...
The most popular screen resolutions on the web in the world are:
(according to http://www.onestat.com/html/aboutus_pre ... tions.html)

1. 1024 x 768 --- 56.15%
2. 1280 x 1024 --- 15.79%
3. 800 x 600 --- 12.04%
4. 1280 x 800 --- 4.09%
5. 1152 x 864 --- 3.90%

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:37 am
by Benjamin
So I guess this gives us 7 years to learn about it before enough browsers will support it right? By then screen resolutions will probably be a bit higher anyway.

It does look pretty cool though, although it does look like something more suited for article based web sites such as newspapers and magazines.

My only concern with it though, is that it says that there will "always" be x columns, which wouldn't be a good thing on very small screens. I would recommend that they add the ability to make it collapse into less columns below certain width's.

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:03 pm
by Oren
astions wrote:So I guess this gives us 7 years to learn about it before enough browsers will support it right? By then screen resolutions will probably be a bit higher anyway.

It does look pretty cool though, although it does look like something more suited for article based web sites such as newspapers and magazines.

My only concern with it though, is that it says that there will "always" be x columns, which wouldn't be a good thing on very small screens. I would recommend that they add the ability to make it collapse into less columns below certain width's.
Yeah, I agree with everyting being said by astions.

I really don't get why CSS 3 is going to take so much time though.

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:09 pm
by Roja
Oren wrote:I really don't get why CSS 3 is going to take so much time though.
Because Microsoft has little incentive to improve its standards support, and lots of incentive not to.