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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:41 pm
by Luke
plus every time you post a table layout here, we're all going to laugh at you.

One reason to design w/css and tables is being demonstrated on a site I'm building right now. I just switched out the css document and I have an entire new website. I have 4 different css files and they all change the way the site is displayed DRASTICALLY. you can't do that with tables... because they delegate where and how things display within the markup.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:55 pm
by RobertGonzalez
That is a very good point Ninja. Extensibility is nice to have all the time.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:00 pm
by JellyFish
I understand...

Could you use tables with disign layouts at all? There are somethings that tables can do that divs can't right?

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:59 pm
by RobertGonzalez
No, there is nothing that tables can do that proper CSS can't accomplish.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:56 pm
by superdezign
About a week ago, I would have agreed with JellyFish. But, I just made two clients' websites using CSS (I used to use CSS applied on almost every table, but I wasn't quite there yet) and wow. I mean, there was a learning curve since we all started out with tables (at least I'm pretty sure we all did) and it takes a bit to get used to, but after you get it you see how much more you can accomplish.

I used to have to cut so much of a website's design to end up with the correct layout (not to mention numerous IE6 spacing issues) and even though the second company I work for still uses tables, I through pure CSS in the script I do from time to time.

I was skeptical, but now I believe. :-p

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:02 pm
by RobertGonzalez
I can speak from experience. I was a tables only kinda guy until about six months ago. When I went full time into development, I went 100% CSS and I can honestly say that I can knock out an entire design without tables faster than I could with.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:08 pm
by Luke
Everah wrote:I can speak from experience. I was a tables only kinda guy until about six months ago. When I went full time into development, I went 100% CSS and I can honestly say that I can knock out an entire design without tables faster than I could with.
The reason I say that sometimes you need tables to do it quick and dirty is because I work for a marketing/design firm that does web development. The sites that are designed are really not designed by people who understand how they are going to be laid out later, and in some cases, the quickest and easiest way to get them to work is to just cut them up and throw them in a table.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:08 pm
by RobertGonzalez
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:The reason I say that sometimes you need tables to do it quick and dirty is because I work for a marketing/design firm that does web development. The sites that are designed are really not designed by people who understand how they are going to be laid out later, and in some cases, the quickest and easiest way to get them to work is to just cut them up and throw them in a table.
I can understand that. But for me it is literally easier to throw together a CSS controlled layout than it is to try to figure out how the tables will do it. It might be because I haven't used table for layouts in a long time. Or it might be that the thought of using a table as a design controller makes me sick.

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:29 am
by superdezign
Everah wrote:
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:The reason I say that sometimes you need tables to do it quick and dirty is because I work for a marketing/design firm that does web development. The sites that are designed are really not designed by people who understand how they are going to be laid out later, and in some cases, the quickest and easiest way to get them to work is to just cut them up and throw them in a table.
I can understand that. But for me it is literally easier to throw together a CSS controlled layout than it is to try to figure out how the tables will do it. It might be because I haven't used table for layouts in a long time. Or it might be that the thought of using a table as a design controller makes me sick.
Now how could you say such a thing? Throwing everything into those miniature nested spreadsheets was so much fun! :wink: