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WAI ... Does it absolutely matter?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:37 am
by theda
Right now I'm visiting the WAI check lists and looking at all the hoops you have to jump through to be legal (Retards in the UK parlaiment...) or compliant (Like the rest of the world...). Is it really necessary to go through their hundred step list?
A few things on there ask for "simple sentences" ... So basically, every two words a period for the mentally disabled? I'm pretty sure the vast majority of mentally disabled people probably wouldn't even LAND on my website, as it has no actual help, and nothing of importance to anyone but me (and maybe my friends if they actually care...

) By the way, I have nothing wrong with disabled people, I have a few friends who are ...disabled (or should be classified as...)
Re: WAI ... Does it absolutely matter?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:01 am
by Roja
theda wrote:Right now I'm visiting the WAI check lists and looking at all the hoops you have to jump through to be legal (Retards in the UK parlaiment...) or compliant (Like the rest of the world...). Is it really necessary to go through their hundred step list?
If you are providing a service to the public, then yes. Personal (read: non-commercial in any way) websites don't fall under the requirements.
Of course, you don't have to. But when a lawsuit is filed, and they use the WAI guidelines, as written, to show you clearly in violation, then feel free to realize that you should have been following the rules. The law is there to ensure that you have clear guidelines to follow.
Your choice.
theda wrote:A few things on there ask for "simple sentences" ... So basically, every two words a period for the mentally disabled?
You are welcome to your biased and rude interpretation of that requirement. Please feel free to only use two words per sentence if that is what you feel constitutes a simple sentence.
It's like speeding in traffic because someone is tailgating you - the person behind you won't be in court.. you will. Use YOUR judgement, and if in doubt, get legal counsel.
theda wrote:
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of mentally disabled people probably wouldn't even LAND on my website, as it has no actual help, and nothing of importance to anyone but me (and maybe my friends if they actually care...

)
The law is written to address sites providing a service or product to the public. That ranges from government sites to ebay, from cafepress t-shirts to amazon.com. If you open to the public, there are requirements you have to meet.
The question isn't whether someone will access your site that will need accomodation - the question is whether your site will allow that potential visitor to get what they need without hassle.
theda wrote:By the way, I have nothing wrong with disabled people, I have a few friends who are ...disabled (or should be classified as...)
If you feel a need to qualify where you stand, its likely that you aren't standing in the right place.
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:02 am
by feyd
it doesn't matter much to a personal page/site.. it matters to businesses that are more international or other variants thereof.
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:19 am
by theda
Ah yes, thank you Roja for going on a tyrade, that really makes me want to trust you in the future with paypal payments

.
Re: WAI ... Does it absolutely matter?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:55 am
by wwwapu
theda wrote:Is it really necessary to go through their hundred step list?
No. If you make valid HTML or XHTML most of the level A things come by themselves. Also much of the level AA is very sensible like:
3.5 Use header elements to convey document structure and use them according to specification.
There is nothing mystical there.
Making accessible page is not any harder than broken page, but it is easier to understand and maintain.
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:57 am
by Roja
theda wrote:Ah yes, thank you Roja for going on a tyrade, that really makes me want to trust you in the future with paypal payments

.
Sorry, I. Couldnt understand. What you. Meant because. You didn't. Use two. Word sentences. Or otherwise. Insult the. Public you. Want to. Visit your. SITE.
The response was proportional to the statements and questions asked. Perhaps you should consider that many of the very people answering your questions might in fact *be* differently-abled, challenged, or otherwise not in the mainstream - and in critical need of those accessibility guidelines.
It would at least (hopefully) teach you a little respect for the (extremely minimal) standards that are attempting to make the web accessible for everyone.
If suggesting the alternative to your flamebait about two word sentences is a tyrade, then I suspect we don't have much more to discuss.
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:03 am
by theda
Actually, yes we do... In my feeble attempt to validate my website to WAI standards, I have come across one main issue: None of them can actually validate my website correctly, because they fail to understand ' meaning the same as " (aka, <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC '-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN' '
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd'>) I can't validate anything because it doesn't detect my doctype. Although it still says I pass (illogically of course).
In my script, I have single quotes so that I don't have to escape every single double quote in my HTML... Is there a way to replace ' with " during the output?
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:12 am
by feyd
it's best to fix the code, as making a good filter could be quite painful.. false positives and all..
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:25 am
by Roja
theda wrote:Actually, yes we do... In my feeble attempt to validate my website to WAI standards, I have come across one main issue: None of them can actually validate my website correctly, because they fail to understand ' meaning the same as " (aka, <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC '-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN' '
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd'>) I can't validate anything because it doesn't detect my doctype. Although it still says I pass (illogically of course).
Thats funny! (that it passes but doesn't validate)
Which site isn't validating it? Provide a link please.
theda wrote:
In my script, I have single quotes so that I don't have to escape every single double quote in my HTML... Is there a way to replace ' with " during the output?
You could just do a str_replace, but the possibilities of mistakes are.. incredibly high. I highly suggest seperating content (html) from code (php), and by doing so, you wont have to worry about " v. '.
Re: WAI ... Does it absolutely matter?
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:55 am
by onion2k
theda wrote:Right now I'm visiting the WAI check lists and looking at all the hoops you have to jump through to be legal (Retards in the UK parlaiment...) or compliant (Like the rest of the world...). Is it really necessary to go through their hundred step list?
An American calling the UK government retarded .. pot.. kettle.. black..
Anyway.. the WAI guidelines are set out so that people write better web sites. You don't have to follow them if you don't want to. As you're American any sites you create don't fall under UK jurisdiction, so us Brits won't be telling you off any time soon.
Of course, you'll be alienating a significant number of internet users, and they'll be telling their mates how bad your site is, who'll tell other people.. and so on..
But hey.. if you don't want to write good, standards compliant, high quality software, that's your choice.
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:12 pm
by theda
Of course. Hey, you brits nag about our government all the time.
Now, I fixed the string replace... That's good. But still these stupid WAI validators don't comprehend my doctype... And it's straight off the W3C website...
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:28 pm
by Roja
theda wrote:Of course. Hey, you brits nag about our government all the time.
That would be because our government has earned it.. This could turn into a whopping long thread if we get on that topic however.
theda wrote:Now, I fixed the string replace... That's good. But still these stupid WAI validators don't comprehend my doctype... And it's straight off the W3C website...
Again I ask, whats the url for the validator?
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:39 pm
by theda
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:37 pm
by Roja
Now, to be fair, I'm using an html 4.01 doctype, but when I use single quotes instead of doubles for my doctype, my site passed.
I'd suggest making a test page (ultra simple html page), and change the doctype. Perhaps its not the doctype that is triggering the error, or maybe it only occurs for xhtml.
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:41 pm
by wwwapu
It's possible cynthia does not understand all these new fancy xhtml thingies. Did you try to emulate other browsers?
An other WCAG validation tool is
http://webxact.watchfire.com/