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Why no Applicants???
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:04 pm
by bigfishphil
Hello all,
I'm trying to grow beyond the home office and was very excited to do so, but I'm getting ZERO qualified responses to my job ads. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Salary too low maybe? It seems reasonable, but I don't really know as most ads don't include salary.
Been doing mostly Craigslist (local job to Chicago) and free classified ads, but will bite the $500 monster bullet before too long I guess. Here's the ad...
http://www.bigfishadwords.com/jobs
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Philip
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:30 pm
by Christopher
1. You don't say what city your are in other than "Pilsen Arts District."
2. Programmers are not "Energentic" because it's not a word (they are not generally "energetic" either)
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:42 pm
by bigfishphil
Thanks Christopher.
Do you think they can be Motivated? Maybe Bright? Something else maybe?
I'm not looking for a fake HEY HOW'S EVERYBODY in the morning, but rather someone who don't mess around and can help me grow the business.
Any ideas?
Thanks again. Keep 'em coming!
Philip
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:53 pm
by Christopher
I think most programmers are looking for something that is not boring and not too regimented. We are not the most exciting bunch, but we like intellectual challenges and appreciate working places where they actually care about technology. Good programming is difficult; good design is harder. So programmers want to be appreciated and they want an environment where their skills can grow.
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:42 am
by Zoxive
Some other things that are nice to know, is How many other PHP Devlopers are there, and what his place would be. (Maybe even Graphic artists/html/css so they can get an idea as to what work they will be doing mostly)
By place, I mean if there are other Developers who see over the projects, and what not. Or maybe there are other Devs, but they would mainly be working on separate projects.
I guess my suggestions could be more personal, as I am currently job market.

Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:04 am
by onion2k
I'm surprised you're not getting applicants for that job. It's a pretty good advert; it certainly covers all the important points. Have you tried
http://chiphpug.php.net/ ? How about a local college or university? If it's like the UK it'll be awash with capable developers desperate for work. You'd need to be flexible about the hours and stuff, but from this thread it sounds like you're willing to be.
Another possibility is that your expectations for what constitutes a 'qualified response' is a bit high for the salary offered. Here in the UK an offer of $40k should get you with a candidate with a year or two of relevant PHP coding experience.
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:01 am
by Kieran Huggins
if you want to find really good, motivated people try getting involved in the local tech community. BarCamp and the like is a good place to start, and you'll have a good chance of meeting the right kind of programmer (or someone who knows them).
Good luck!
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:35 pm
by bigfishphil
Thanks so much everyone!
- PHP Clubs: I didn't know about local PHP clubs so I'll definitely be digging into that!
- More about Position: I had been advised to remove a bunch of detail about the company, but I'd also like to know if I were a job-hunter. Do you guys think this one is better?
http://www.bigfishadwords.com/developer-position
PS: Qualified = Someone who knows any PHP and is in Chicago.
Thanks again for your help. I truly appreciate it!
Philip
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:25 am
by dreamscape
Yes, your offered salary is too low, especially for the Chicago area. Also, no benefits for 90 days? HUGE turn off. Maybe at the right salary some would accept that, but typically benefits start after 30 days from what I see.
I really think that is a big part of your problem... you are offering at best an entry level salary, but are looking for someone of at least intermediate level skills.
There is talent here in Chicago, but you've got to be willing to pay the going rate and at least be in the expected salary range. Just IMHO
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:08 am
by volomike
I agree with dreamscape. I live in the Myrtle Beach area and for a full-time day job doing PHP work, seeing the boss eye-to-eye every day (not telecommuting), even this area can afford to pay as much as $65K. So, in the Chicago area, it should pay perhaps as much as $80 or $90K.
So I think this company should go a different route -- just outsource to freelancers in the USA. That way, they can pay this low of a salary and still make it worth both party's time. I mean, as a freelancer, my overhead is far, far lower than a medium-sized or large business, and I can work in small gigs here or there in my week around this to make up for the low salary, actually making it worth my while, and worth the while of a firm like this.
To put this into perspective, in the Myrtle Beach area, a recent college grad with a business degree can process loan applications, or handle sales implementation tasks for new clients, and earn $35K starting out. So I just can't see why a PHP developer, which is a lot harder of a job type than this, should make $40K.
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:40 am
by bigfishphil
Thanks everyone.
Seems the salary was too low and ended up getting someone at $55k. It's just going to be harder to make the business go than I thought as will have to be charing a lot more per hour than I was hoping. According on one book I'm readying, an employee should generate 3-4 TIMES their salary in revenue, which at a reasonable billable hours puts our hourly rate at $110, a very tough sell to small businesses, and based on the $55k, which it seems should be more like $65k, sheesh. I'm thinking I could do $75/hr and still keep clients coming in the door. Any thoughts on that from people who work for small sized shops?
Thanks again to all,
Philip
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:33 am
by volomike
Here's my take. If you really want to give this a go, then be more flexible with your devs. Get them in the door with $50K, bill what you have to bill to be able to pay that kind of salary, and let the devs go home most of the time, showing up in the office for 3 days every other week. Ever hear of something called a VPN? And, a poor man's VPN can be built fairly easily using something called DynamicDNS. Just post a request in a Linux networking forum for a "Poor Man's VPN implementation with DynamicDNS", and you'll probably get several responses for guys who can do it for $2K. Will save you a ton of cash on Cisco hardware.
If you can do that, then you won't have to bite your nails as much about your guys leaving you for a $90K PHP job in Chicago.
Another thing you can do is to think of your PHP guys not as generalists, but as specialists. Find younger guys, get them to increase their skills in 2-3 focused areas instead of all over the map, and then get them to work with you in teams. Perhaps by doing this you can get what you want and pay less.
Still another thought is that doing W2 hires with devs on a low salary can be a financial risk for you. I mean, you might end up with far too much turnover, or where guys use you for awhile after college, then dump you when their skills are good enough. You know, it's time-consuming and pretty darn expensive to have to hire, fire, discipline, interview, encourage, prod, nurture, teach, and manage inhouse devs. So, that's why I suggest using a lot of freelancers and finding some good ones, instead. These guys come with their own tools most of the time, you don't have to do a W2 on them, the interview process and hiring/firing are shorter (although you still have to cover some basic legal points), and you'll get some real talent out there.
One thing that's great about freelancers is that they are a tough lot. I mean, these guys, just like me, have to sink or swim in order to stay afloat. So we have to learn a lot of things about PHP, databases, packages that work with that, and learn how to optimize. So, I'd reason to bet that we freelancers in general have far more talent than guys inhouse because if we didn't, we'd have to shut down our businesses for lack of cash. This isn't to say that all inhousers are more talented than us, it's just that they can have an excuse to be lazy one day and get paid, while we cannot, and so the odds of better talent are more in our favor.
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:29 am
by bigfishphil
Thanks for detailed response Volomike. I had tried the freelance route but wasn't having much luck with it. Interesting idea to hire local ones though and have them come into the office periodically. I've got a full-time guy now but will keep it in mind going forward.
Thanks again,
Philip
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:46 am
by onion2k
Where I work (me, the MD, and another developer) we've practically given up making websites for clients and now we mostly make sites that we can charge clients to use (eg email marketing stuff, stats, online booking services..). And we're branching out into selling actual physical things (completely unrelated to the web, or even IT). Selling small scale web development is incredibly hard to compete at.
Re: Why no Applicants???
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:05 am
by tailcast
Hi,
does anyone know how to find good php developers in the UK, Poland, Romania or Bulgaria? I have tried linkedin with little success.