Disadvantage of ASP

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elnaz1010
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Disadvantage of ASP

Post by elnaz1010 »

hi
my question is simple,
im looking for asp disadvantages in compare to php.
so far i found:

1.Prices
2.Being developed by microsoft (for microsoft haters).
3.Asp doesn't run on a linux server (thanks to PHPHorizons)


they are general disadvantage of it,
can you please tell me more specific disadvantages of it? or even more general one?

regards
Last edited by elnaz1010 on Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PHPHorizons
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by PHPHorizons »

My understanding is that asp doesn't run on a linux server, so you'd be confined to using a windows server.

That could be a negative or a plus, depending on what your needs are. For me, that's a definite deal breaker.
TheOnly92
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by TheOnly92 »

This information seems no longer true... http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page.

You CAN run ASP on Linux...
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PHPHorizons
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by PHPHorizons »

The op said ASP, not not ASP.NET.

Mono is an implementation of .NET. ASP.NET can be used there, not ASP.
Wikipedia wrote:ASP.NET is often confused as the newest release of ASP, but the technologies are very different. ASP.NET relies on the .NET Framework and is a compiled language, whereas ASP is strictly an interpreted scripting language.
Perhaps the OP does indeed mean ASP.NET though. Mono would definitely be a possibility there. I haven't seen any shared hosting that has mono installed, but you could definitely install it yourself on a vps or dedi.

Cheers
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omniuni
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by omniuni »

ASP.NET is a .NET version of ASP (OK, obvious, right?) that is perhaps better described as ASP 2.0. Basically, where ASP.NET is a definite improvement over ASP, it has the same drawbacks.

ASP is generally slower than PHP, more difficult to write and maintain, runs only on Windows servers, and is closed source. Even with Mod_Mono, traditional ASP is only mostly supported. Complex applications will still require the full server to run.

A truly effective website based on the .NET technology requires the developer to know at least ASP.NET, VBScript.NET, and C#.NET. Knowing ADO.NET would be a plus for database work. Developing in ASP.NET is next to impossible without one of Microsoft's IDE's. There are third party ones, but there is no guarantee that they will be as up to date, or work 100%. I have, quite literally, seen a post on this forum where around 60 lines of ASP turned out to be a buggy implementation of htmlentities() in PHP. That alone should give you some idea of the difference in efficiency for web application development.

ASP has no built in functionality for image handling (GD is standard with PHP). The most common way of adding functionality to ASP is to BUY an add-on. For example, because it doesn't play easily with CSS, there is a wonderful software called RadControls which allows you to easily create a stylish and even AJAX-based interface. Like most ASP software, it is reasonably priced at $799. I know a developer who asked the company to buy that so that he could add some basic controls to a CMS he was writing. You know, like a calendar. And a drop-down menu. Also, of course, if memory serves me, he requested the $1299 version. I know another developer who spent around $300 on a "good" WYSIWYG editor that still gave more trouble than TinyMCE which I use for my projects.

Now, ASP.NET is a compiled language. It will perform faster on certain tasks because it does not have to be interpreted. Of course, this assumes a few things. a) you don't mind having to carefully compile individual DLL's and maintaining them in order to get the speed boost. b) you can't use a *nix machine which can perform faster using libraries and CGI.

It's really much easier to look at the advantages of PHP.

PHP is an open source, rapid development scripting language. For what it is, it is very fast, stable, and efficient. It has been designed with web development in mind, and contains many efficient functions and convenient characteristics in a default implementation. It works well with Apache or other even faster servers like Lightppd. There is a vibrant community around PHP, with plenty of code snippets available to help you on your way. It works well for use with AJAX and CSS. When written correctly, PHP can easily handle enterprise level websites. PHP interfaces well with other languages and databases. PHP has built-in standard support for things like image manipulation thanks to libraries like GD. With PHP5, there is a good object model, and object oriented code can be easy to maintain.

I love PHP, and the deal-breaker to me was needing an IDE (specifically, Visual Studio) to even be able to write ASP or ASP.NET. It's just that complex a language, that I was told by many (experts) on the ASP official forums that it was just downright silly to think of writing an ASP or ASP.NET site using just a text editor. I wrote a five-line PHP program and asked what it would take to write an equivalent in a text editor in ASP.NET. It wasn't pretty.

I was blatantly told: "Trying to develop .Net applications without the .Net framework even installed? Madness in a jar!".

Check out the whole thread here: http://forums.asp.net/p/1446201/3289173.aspx#3289173
elnaz1010
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by elnaz1010 »

thanks for your comprehensive answer man.

i really appreciate it.
Denoxis
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by Denoxis »

As a person who has spent many years on ASP, I would say it's simply outdated. Period.

Not to defend the ASP here, but some of the points I have to disagree with:
I know another developer who spent around $300 on a "good" WYSIWYG editor that still gave more trouble than TinyMCE
Things like calendars, WYSIWYG editors etc are client-based javascripts and I've used them (including TinyMCE) on many ASP pages. Is there a good WYSIWYG editor that cost money? Well, it's a commercial option out there for any developer no matter what their platform is. If you are talking about components like email senders etc. then you have a valid point.
I love PHP, and the deal-breaker to me was needing an IDE
You can use notepad as IDE for any language as long as you know the language. I have been using Edit Plus for ASP, as I am using Edit Plus now for PHP. It would be unfair to advertise *any* language as "requires IDE"

PHP is frequently updated, and you can find free classes and modules easily. You can install a linux and Apache on a old hardware, and you are good to go.
ASP was abandoned by MS years ago. It's only useful if you have to maintain existing ASP web sites. There is no point of learning ASP, assuming that was the main reason of your comparison.
PHP is alive, ASP is dead (NOT ASP.NET, that is something totally different)
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omniuni
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by omniuni »

You somewhat misunderstand my points.
I know another developer who spent around $300 on a "good" WYSIWYG editor that still gave more trouble than TinyMCE
I know, TinyMCE works fine with .NET. The complaint here is the CULTURE that generally surrounds ASP.NET. Many .NET developers I know would say that using a a free XXXXX is unprofessional, and you need YYYYY instead, for whatever reason.
I love PHP, and the deal-breaker to me was needing an IDE
Needing a SPECIFIC IDE. By the way, you were really using EditPlus for ASP.NET and not ASP? ASP is quite deprecated, and is totally different than ASP.NET. No one over at the ASP.NET forums gave even the slightest doubt to me that using a non .NET specific editor was even a possibly feasible option.
Denoxis
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by Denoxis »

Needing a SPECIFIC IDE. By the way, you were really using EditPlus for ASP.NET and not ASP? ASP is quite deprecated, and is totally different than ASP.NET. No one over at the ASP.NET forums gave even the slightest doubt to me that using a non .NET specific editor was even a possibly feasible option.
I thought this original thread was comparing apples to apples (classic ASP vs PHP, not .NET). I must have misunderstood the original question. For interpreted scripts (classic ASP, PHP etc.) Edit Plus is good enough for me. As for .NET, it's more like an application platform where you need a framework (just like Java) and you do need debugging/compiling (again, like Java). Even though Visual Studio Express is free of charge, it's a specific IDE for .NET. But then again, it's *not* a scripting language like PHP/classic ASP.

I remember one more disadvantage of classic ASP/ASP.NET: You develop a website on a shared server, and heavily use 3rd party components that come with your hosting package. When you move your web to another hosting, and if they don't have the exact same components you'll have to edit your code which can be a pain.
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omniuni
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by omniuni »

I guess I figured it is probably the same situation I was in. I originally thought ASP vs. ASP.NET was a small difference. Something like PHP3 to PHP5. (OK, that's a big difference, but it didn't change the language entirely!)

I also am under the impression that to talk about ASP today when ASP.NET is out and has been out is something like talking about CRT's. If we are talking about ASP, then the disadvantage is clear:

ASP is deprecated. It is not a modern language. Microsoft has replaced it with .NET, where PHP is still developed, supported, and continues to be modernized.
Denoxis
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Re: Disadvantage of ASP

Post by Denoxis »

ASP is deprecated. It is not a modern language. Microsoft has replaced it with .NET, where PHP is still developed, supported, and continues to be modernized.
Absolutely. Once the commercial life of a product ends (like ASP) it cannot be modernized by the community like PHP.

I underestimated the PHP thinking it's not capable enough just couple weeks ago (last time I checked PHP was many years ago). Today I can see that you can use object oriented programming in PHP with bunch of free classes, thanks to the PHP community behind it.
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