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Request guidance for startup
http://forums.devnetwork.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=135796
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Author:  earthdog [ Sun May 27, 2012 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Request guidance for startup

Hi All!

I have an idea that i want to implement as a website and hopefully i could go commercial with it someday.

A little background on myself first.

I call myself a programmer who got "imprisoned" rather early by business. My everyday concern has to do with ERPs, BI, Business process analysis AND writing code but not extensively. Web Development is not where i have much programming experience on. My main programming experience comes from almost any windows programming language...

The idea is having people write online journals (like but far from this general logic of penzu).

I would need a small UI that users will be able to create content. The heart of the service will be the functions that the users could perform on their data. I cant go deep into this as i dont want to make it public. But the needs would be to manipulate the journal data from the DB and do lots of stuff on them (exporting in various formats e.t.c).

Generally i want to get a WYSIWYG editor fully customized in the front (like tinyMCE), and make the users create their content from there. After that is a matter of applying business logic to the data and do my thing.

I have decided to go with PHP and if i use a framework to go with CodeIgniter. I chose CI because :

1) I am not an experienced PHP programmer so i need to start with a light framework that i could into it rather fast.
2) I need a Frameworks structure and guidelines
3) I need to write my code as abstract as i can in order to be able to redesign the solution in the future

Secondly i need to decide if its gonna be full custom code or if i will put a CMS (drupal,joomla) on the outside of my apps like a "wrapper".

The last point is what i cant decide the most. I am thinking that if i put a CMS to be a container of my site i will not have to worry about some things (logins,security,menus e.t.c)...

On the other hand it could be more work like this because i will have to plug my applications to joomla's framework and use their classes.

The idea of going full custom is gaining points in my head as i will have total control over everything. Also because the User interface is not gonna be huge i found it a good idea.

Am i trying to reinvent the wheel? or full custom is the way to go in my case?

Author:  califdon [ Sun May 27, 2012 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup

I think others here may offer more informed opinions than I can, but since I'm the first to respond to you (does that make me a "first responder"??), I'll say that I think you're framing the project constructively, and I respect your approach and planning. Personally, I'm a hobby web developer, although I've done substantial work on several nonprofit organizations' sites. I have avoided using CMS systems because of their complexity and. to be honest, my laziness in not wanting to learn (and be constrained by) such systems. I have also avoided frameworks like CodeIgniter for similar reasons. My projects just haven't been complex enough to warrant it. That doesn't mean that they are not valuable in other situations, to be sure. From your description of your project, my impression (and others may differ!) is that you wouldn't need any of those. I think that a totally custom PHP approach would be the most direct and easiest way to implement an application such as you described. It is true that CMS may be useful in updating a website to different presentations later, but with the proper use of CSS and custom scripts, a lot can be done quickly to update the appearance of a site.

I'm sure that others here will have other viewpoints and probably many will have more experience to suit your project. Good luck with it.

Author:  earthdog [ Mon May 28, 2012 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup

Thanks for your time...

The notion of using a CMS is fading away, mostly because my implementation is rather simple in UI terms, so i beleive custom php + css + jquery will do the trick.

The reason for CodeIgniter is that i want to learn a framework and because there are ready classes for encrytpion,user management e.t.c...( i am coming from .NET world so i am spoiled :)) )

I would appreciate others opinion on this as want i want the most is to be told if i am going the right way..Learning and reading is not a problem :))

Author:  social_experiment [ Mon May 28, 2012 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup

From working with existing CMS (specifically Joomla, which i dislike intensely) i've learned that the problems normally appear when the site is up and running. CMS have many great features but if you are looking for something very specific, focused solely on solving your particular problems then an existing cms might not be the way to go.

For me the problem(s) with cms has mostly been with how much they can be modified - in the last year each client that asked for a cms site wanted things that was beyond the ken of the system, the extensions couldn't achieve what the client wanted, even though the reviews of the modules / components made bold claims. Also i ran into 2 particular instances where the components clashed and not even the authors could remedy the system.

By my previous two statements i don't knock existing cms'es. I've used them myself with success but only because i needed the functions they were created for.

Author:  earthdog [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup

thanks social,

I "feel " the same..Its sounds logical and sound.

And this makes the use of a frmework more demanding i suppose. Because i want to use the frameworks MVC logic and authentication / file classes e.t.c

Author:  Christopher [ Mon May 28, 2012 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup


Author:  earthdog [ Mon May 28, 2012 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup

You mean Zend and Symfony?

I will host the app and i want to enter the world of frameworks hence the choice for CI..

Author:  Live24x7 [ Mon May 28, 2012 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup


Author:  Christopher [ Mon May 28, 2012 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup


Author:  earthdog [ Tue May 29, 2012 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup

Nice point, although if you need a framework that you can use optionally the MVC pattern (i think they call them glued?), isint't Zend the one you have to go to ?

Author:  social_experiment [ Tue May 29, 2012 4:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup


Author:  earthdog [ Tue May 29, 2012 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup

thanks for the link!

I am impressed with Yii, i wonder why it doesnt come up frequently in discussions and first level comparisons....

Also taking a look at google trends , codeigniter and yii share the same increased popularity...

Author:  Celauran [ Tue May 29, 2012 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Request guidance for startup

Yii does come up pretty frequently whenever "What's the best framework?" threads are created (ie. every other day). It's written for PHP 5.1, though, so it doesn't really compare with more modern frameworks. Take a look at Laravel, Lithium, or FuelPHP. Actually, take a look at as many frameworks as you can and find the one that's most comfortable for you.

As for Google Trends, well, popular != good. Just look at many of the PHP tutorials out there.

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