Page 1 of 1

Game Design

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:44 pm
by randomblink
My question is two-fold...

I am working out the idea for an online game.
I am fairly comfortable with Javascript, PHP, XHTML, and CSS.
My idea is a card game.

1) Does anyone know of an online website that gives an idea of how to plan a game on paper? I know that the design for a game SHOULD be done on paper... But I honestly don't know where to begin.

2) I would like to avoid Flash, due to some licensing rumors I have discovered. How difficult is it to run a multi-user connectivity for a game session using the web programming/scripting languages listed above?

In case ANYONE has heard of the game, Netrunner, I am wanting to put together more of a generic interface that you could SLOT in your CCG of choice... But I want to design it FOR ME so I could play this damn game online and not have to download 200 gigabytes of files, like the current online card games are setup to do... ugh! If anyone has information AND is interested in working on this with me... <crosses fingers> Just pop me a question.

Re: Game Design

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:17 pm
by McGruff
randomblink wrote:I know that the design for a game SHOULD be done on paper... But I honestly don't know where to begin.
With a sheet of paper?

Sorry couldn't resist that :oops:

It sounds like this would have a lot in common with live chat scripts. Php isn't ideal but it has been done.

You can get some open source chat apps from hotscripts.com. Might give you some ideas.

Comedians, comedians everywhere...

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:50 pm
by randomblink
Always a comedian in EVERY CROWD ain't there... chuckle...
I deserved it tho...
I will check out hotscripts.com and see what I can find...
But does someone have a template for designing software on paper...? I really am kinda stumped... I am a hobbyist programmer, no formal training... So any help would be appreciated... Thanks...

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:13 am
by penguinboy
If I remember right; back in highschool we had some some template
to follow before we could start coding but I never used it.
It basically went like:

1)declare all you're variables with comments on what each var does.
2)write out the program from start to finish
3)check for errors
4)rewrite if needed
5)code the program

But, in the real world;
I always draw out what I want on paper first,
but I have no 'template' for it.
I just think of what I'm going to need and then I write it down.

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:30 am
by JayBird
Paper? What's that?

Basically, there ain't a right or wrong way of doing anything. Just cos you have read it is best to use paper first, doesn't mean it is the best way for you. It doesn't work for me. I just get stuck in playing with small bits of code and and work with my ideas as i develop.

Mark

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:45 am
by greenhorn666
I completly disagree on Bech100's post...
But let's turn it that way:
Bech100 might be genius, and being the only person I know that is able to code without designing code first.

Even if designing "in your head" is always obiously the first step, having some trace is always better (or get a great reverse-engineering software). Once your project gets bigger or (I said or not xor) older, design is pretty much the only thing you can rely on to continue the project or modify it in a efficient manner.
While I agree that for the "hello world" app, design is probably useless, since you can figure it out by reviewing a few 10 lines of code. Review 100 of thousand lines of code makes it somewhat harder and... longer!

I can't advise you on game design concept, while I believe the unified process should apply to it as any other software (I mainly develop enterprise solutions and it helps me a lot). Or you might get a look at agile software dev. too

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:35 am
by McGruff
Not sure if this is what you're looking for but see this UML tool.

And this is an interesting article about test-driven, rather than design driven, development.

And don't forget a good database design.

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:53 am
by JayBird
greenhorn666 wrote:Bech100 might be genius...
Yep, you're right! :)

Mark

Re: Game Design

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:59 pm
by Roja
randomblink wrote:My question is two-fold...

I am working out the idea for an online game.
I am fairly comfortable with Javascript, PHP, XHTML, and CSS.
My idea is a card game.
Finally, someone asking a question DIRECTLY in my favorite area of knowledge.

I program an online web-based, space-themed game. You can play a sample (fairly buggy at the moment as we are preparing for a new release) on our debug server.

It uses JS, PHP, html, and css. We intend to move to XHTML eventually.
randomblink wrote: 1) Does anyone know of an online website that gives an idea of how to plan a game on paper? I know that the design for a game SHOULD be done on paper... But I honestly don't know where to begin.
Google for game design. You will find sites like gamasutra and gamedev.. very useful resources. Ideally, don't limit yourself to "online" game development, as that narrows the field considerably. The lessons learned from game design - in general - are almost always applicable to online gaming.

Once you have a strong foundation in the primary concept of game development, then you can move on to the more esoteric and specific
issues involved with online games.
randomblink wrote: 2) I would like to avoid Flash, due to some licensing rumors I have discovered. How difficult is it to run a multi-user connectivity for a game session using the web programming/scripting languages listed above?
Ignore rumors - focus on facts. The fact is, an online game will be harder for search engines to catalog, harder to be handicapped-accessible, and generally, less easy to use. (Although one could argue that you can make stunning interfaces in Flash, and I wouldnt disagree on that point).

As to how difficult it is, feel free to PM me here or on my game forums and I can give you eye-bleeding detail. In summary, it really depends on how you write your code, and what you try to do. In general, we do very well, and the server impact is mild. We've had user counts over 250 without any problems.

As I said, don't hesitate to PM me for more info, I could chat about the challenges for a while. :)

Game design doesnt have to involve paper, or UML, or any difficult-to-learn technologies.

It *does* take at least some minor level of foresight, planning, and intelligence - if you want to avoid some serious future recoding.

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:57 pm
by defx
My best advice would be just to sit down with the paper and start out by writing what it is exactly you want to accomplish. Then write out what you know you're going to need. Hope this helps :P

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:21 pm
by eletrium
"The lessons learned from game design - in general - are almost always applicable to online gaming. "

Absolutely right. Most game companies recruit people who like to make games. Their programming skills are secondary.

At their core, games are just a set of rules. That's it. Then there is the rest, being a UI or some game pieces or whatever. In Quake, the rules are simply kill the other guys and don't die and solve minor puzzles. The UI is a 3d environment. In card games, pick any set of common card game rules as an example of rules, and the UI is the deck of cards. Punch buggy is the age old travel "game", the rule is to find a Volks Bug call out it's color before anyone else, and you get to hit them on the arm. The UI is just all the cars around you and your fist and their arm.

For an original game, just start out with a sheet of scratch paper and figure out what rules you want, then scratch out a basic idea for a UI. Bingo. Game Design. Don't have to be neat or "official" with anything. But ideas formed in your head can go bye-bye and you can't afford to let a good idea go to waste. Just scratch some scribbles down, think it over a bit, then start coding.

Oh yeah, when you write the rules down, and you read them, you can actually get a good sense of whether or not it would be "fun".

For an established game where you already know the rules, Blackjack for example, just scratch out a desired UI in a few minutes and go from there.