Mods - This discussion is incredibly off-topic, and I suspect the 'meta/user' discussion should be split, possibly locked, or otherwise acted upon. I'm posting this with the best of intentions, hoping to respond to comments in a friendly discussion, to improve the discourse here. If I don't accomplish that, do feel free to moderate as you need to. (Not that you need my permission!).
Everah wrote:Let's see... been here for three years... read through many of your 'volleys' with other poster... in the end, it seems that you always have the last word and that the other poster is either convinced into submission or simply gives up out of sheer lack of ammunition.
Well, I honestly hope I don't 'win an argument' (what a horrible goal!) on the basis of exhaustion. My goal with discussions is to learn, and possibly educate, and as a far third goal, hopefully have some fun. Your description (along with others) worries me that I'm not accomplishing that well. Everyone has room for improvement, so maybe I should focus on those goals more strongly when posting.
Everah wrote:I am always grinning when I read your posts. Mostly because I am wanting to see what the sorry sack who tries to answer you is gonna get from you in response, but also because
you always, and I mean always, back up what you post. I didn't think it was possible. But you make it so darned entertaining that even if I am horrified by the potential lambasting the other guy is gonna get, I can never look away.

I wouldn't say always, but with a nick like Roja, I try very hard to make sure that I research and understand something before I state a preference. Not to stray the conversation to politics, but I'm as left-leaning liberal as they come - yet I have a number of issues that I identify strongly to the conservative or libertarian side on.
I try (hard) to make
reasoned decisions, and explain my process. Sometimes people don't like that, and sometimes the truth can be a very harsh message (it cuts both ways - I've felt it too). I try to be nice, and humorous about it, but forums aren't a great place for conveying sarcasm or humor, so sometimes, I come across harsh. Anytime it upsets someone, I generally try to discuss it via PM and clarify my intent.
AKA PanamaJack wrote:Actually he tends to make himself look silly half the time so it is a tossup when talking to him. Half the time he smokes himself. Wink
I wouldn't put it at half the time, but I have had some doozies.. if you search on these forums, you can find a post from my early days where I argued passionately that Print was slower than Echo! (Sigh).
AKA PanamaJack wrote:Sorry but I just have to mention this... Smile
Most people usually stop arguing with Roja not because he is right but because they finally realise...
"Don't argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
I'm glad you had nothing to lose.
Gambler wrote:About tree times. After mods tell you to shut up for the third time, you realize that it's pointless to argue about pretty much anything here.
I have two responses to that, and they are contradictory, so bear with me.
First, its not just you. The mods want the forums to be about
discussion, not argument, and while some passionate discussion is useful, many times, arguing is not. Its easy to assume that I (or others) get velvet glove treatment, but don't buy it for a second. I've been warned multiple times, and I (try to) listen to the mods when they steer me away from topics, or suggest moving on. Many times an issue has to come up in a few different threads to find the right "tone" to discuss an issue on friendly terms. Point being, plenty of people have discussions and arguments, and its not pointless. But pointless arguments most definitely are.
Second, its somewhat about you. As others have mentioned, I take the time to research my statements, put effort behind justifying them, and often, my statements bear out in testing. (Not always!)
I've noticed that in the majority of threads where you and I have clashed, you take an extreme anti-norm position. There is nothing wrong with being the devil's advocate, raging against the machine, and being your own man. I'm a strong advocate for standing up for what you feel.
However, you might want to temper that with some research, and with more persuasive discussion techniques. The majority of your "discussion" threads have an extremely confrontational and negative tone. While it does suck that the world loves {insert current trendy thing here}, there are probably more than a few people HERE that do, and telling them that it is stupid to do so will upset them. If on the other hand, you offer up substantial, well-thought out discussion points regarding the reasons why something else is better, not only might you persuade a few people, but you also might gain more respect from people.
By way of example, PanamaJack and I clash in a predictably violent manner in most discussions, but I continue to maintain that I respect his knowledge and his experience. Before he came along, I honestly rarely used Opera, but he convinced me that it had value, so I use it on a non-trivial basis now. (Firefox is still my primary browser, but Opera is a very comfortable alternative). Just because we don't get along personally doesn't mean we lack the ability to persuade each other (even if neither of us really wants to admit it).
Gambler wrote:Especially with people who don't really care about the topic and use use it only as a convenient excuse to get positive carma.
Perhaps 'getting positive carma' is better expressed as "being a nice person", which gets recognized. Thats not a waste of time, and it seems like you feel it is. Reconsider that position. It might mean the difference between being recognized as an argumentative, difficult person, and a strong, passionate advocate for your positions.
Finally, public forums are a poor place for these discussions. While I appreciate the humor and recognition from Everah and Goat, and honestly don't mind a gentle ribbing from PJ, I hope that more blunt discussions can take place via PM. I've offered before, and continue to offer to discuss (with anyone!) their opinions of me, and even ways I can post to help more, and incite less. I'm not here to cause problems. I love these forums, and I want to make them a fun, friendly, and knowledgable place. If I'm not doing that, tell me in PM, and I promise - I will listen.