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 Post subject: maintenance
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:04 am 
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DevNet Master

Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:26 pm
Posts: 2893
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Back again after some essential maintenance. Avatars will be sorted out as soon as I can.


Last edited by McGruff on Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:40 am 
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DevNet Resident

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 1375
hum.....it would kill you to warn us next time?:-D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:59 am
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Location: Lucknow, UP, India
aaargh! remember it was your last post Charlie which did all this :x I told you, don't step on it, but you, you didn't listen to me :cry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:03 am 
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Sorry I picked what I thought would be a quiet time.

I should have been at work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:05 am
Posts: 397
Location: Australia
is it just me or is the moderators group broken? :o


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:33 am 
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More broken than you realise. I'll make a statement in due course.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:36 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON
mickd wrote:
is it just me or is the moderators group broken? :o


McGruff wrote:
More broken than you realise. I'll make a statement in due course.


It would have to be very broken to justify a unilateral decision to dismiss all of the moderators.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:57 pm
Posts: 2745
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
if this gets me banned then so be it, but i think this should be discussed on even ground, no civil war

McGruff and all followers, we are there on IRC, you know where. Come talk, we just want to talk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:53 pm 
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The Ninja Space Mod
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Location: Paradise, CA
HAHA... how stupid is this?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:45 am 
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I've never used IRC so I'd have to figure out how to set it up. I think I can probably guess what's being said though.

I've asked (well not asked: insisted) that we don't squabble about this in public. Thus it wouldn't be fair for me to air my views here while others cannot. I believe in open-ness but this must be resolved in a way that doesn't hurt the forums, as far as possible. You can pretty much see what it's all about in this topic. The same kind of dispute has occurred several times. The difference this time is that it was spilling out too far into the forums and threats were made behind the scenes. As the senior admin, I stopped it. Once you get to that point it can only be resolved one way or the other.

It would be better if we all just hold off for a bit and see if anything can be mended.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:23 pm
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Location: Palm beach, Florida
McGruff wrote:
I've never used IRC so I'd have to figure out how to set it up. I think I can probably guess what's being said though.

Nothing that is worse than the things said behind the scenes by you

McGruff wrote:
I've asked (well not asked: insisted) that we don't squabble about this in public. Thus it wouldn't be fair for me to air my views here while others cannot. I believe in open-ness but this must be resolved in a way that doesn't hurt the forums, as far as possible.

Banning the key members of a forum is pretty much the opposite of your intentions.

McGruff wrote:
The same kind of dispute has occurred several times. The difference this time is that it was spilling out too far into the forums and threats were made behind the scenes.

Threats were made by you

Bottom line, you banned many people that were acting inside the rules, when you yourself were disregarding them. For all I know you will ban me for making this post, which is 100% within the rules.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:19 am 
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McGruff wrote:
Threats were made by you


Actually, I didn't. As far as I was concerned we were still a team - a team with difficulties, but still a team. There are two sides to every dispute and a lot of wild accusations are being made.

You won't be banned for voicing an opinion but I'd suggest that squabbling over who said what to whom in public isn't going to help. I'd rather have a cooling off period and see where that takes us.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:31 am 
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McGruff wrote:
There are two sides to every dispute and a lot of wild accusations are being made.

I agree with you on both counts.

I also think it would be in your best interest to share your side as soon as possible. Without transparency, speculation trumps truth.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:25 am 
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Jedi Mod
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Location: usrlab.com
McGruff wrote:
You won't be banned for voicing an opinion but I'd suggest that squabbling over who said what to whom in public isn't going to help. I'd rather have a cooling off period and see where that takes us.

A cooling off period is all well and good but you've banned a large number of people who help out with people's PHP queries, and there's a number of non-staff members who won't be helping out until it's all resolved. While this dispute continues the community will suffer. This best thing about this place is not the staff, it's the fact anyone can drop in and get help. Who runs it is incidental. Don't forget that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:26 pm
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I really can't say much when the other side doesn't have the opportunity to reply.

I can tell you that the demoted moderators were not actually banned. I assume you've seen the email I sent? Private communications ought not to be made public like this but there we are. They were informed that posting privileges were temporarily suspended until they agreed not to discuss the matter in public. While feelings are running high there's too much risk of someone going too far. Disagreements happen: that's life. I would like to keep this as dignified as possible although I'm not sure how widely this view is shared.

I do believe in open-ness but how much detail would you want? A verbatim record of each stage of the quarrel? Every last accusation and insult? It's been a bruising affair for everyone and quite honestly I think the best thing for each of us to do is just sit back for a bit and be patient.


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