PHP Developers Network

A community of PHP developers offering assistance, advice, discussion, and friendship.
 
Loading
It is currently Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:21 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 268 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:32 am 
Offline
DevNet Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:29 pm
Posts: 3698
Location: New Jersey, US


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:39 am 
Offline
DevNet Resident
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:13 am
Posts: 1640
Location: Israel


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:15 pm 
Offline
DevNet Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:43 am
Posts: 2704
Location: Ireland


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:20 pm 
Offline
Neighborhood Spidermoddy
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:24 pm
Posts: 31559
Location: Bothell, Washington, USA
"Commercial use" was, at the time, understood, for myself, that he was referring to the code, not the text of the book. As far as the code is concerned, I'd want to allow people to use it in any way they wish with little or no restrictions, be they commercial or not.

Now, with the text of the book, I'd prefer that we control all the verbs of it being published. So publication without permission I'm totally in favor of having the terms dictate that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:09 pm 
Offline
DevNet Resident
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:13 am
Posts: 1640
Location: Israel


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:32 pm 
Offline
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:04 pm
Posts: 14293
Location: Fremont, CA, USA
Here are some licensing links and information that I found. Maybe reading through some of these links will help everyone get an understanding of what 'rights' are reserved under a license.











As a last resort, we can always look at developing our own license. There really is nothing stopping us from doing that, either. Again, copyrights are a little different, but as for licensing the text or code samples, we can, and should, read through the more common one or begin considering creating our own.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:21 pm 
Offline
Breakbeat Nuttzer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:57 am
Posts: 13098
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Wow! Ok I'm back. I've scanned over all the posts as this thread has built up over the last week but I'll have to read everything properly before I do anything else 8O :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:59 pm 
Offline
Forum Contributor

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:34 pm
Posts: 258
Location: W-Town


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:18 am 
Offline
DevNet Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:29 pm
Posts: 3698
Location: New Jersey, US
I'd just like to say this: regardless of what the decision is, it is vital that we come to a consensus on the copyright/licensing issue. The worst thing we could do is debate something and then not come to a decision. That being said...

These licenses will allow some non-related party to sell our book without our consent (technically with our consent, because of the license): GFDL, CC-!NC, FreeBSD, Apache 2.0, CPL, TeX, CCDL

These licenses prevent that: CC-NC

No commercial use is in the minority. (Granted, quite a few of these are software licenses, though)

The two main variables here are commercial use and copyright reassignment.

If we require copyright reassignment: The leaders control copyright over the project, which means they have complete control in licensing. At any time, they may change the license (possibly to a non-free one) for all future versions of the work (although the original license usually will protect our right to continue distributing the work under that license). While this may seem like a worst-case scenario, it has happened before, and that's the trouble of assigning copyright: you loose control. If you were solely responsible for a chapter in the book, you have no copyright over it, and cannot relicense it alternatively or use it in any other way except under the terms of the original license. It works the other way: if a license is found to be defective, only the leaders need to unanimously decide to change the license to a newer version.

Just a personal note, if copyright reassignment is required for this project, I'm gone. :-(

If we require no commercial use: Under the terms of this particular license, no publisher may sell the book for profit, and the host that the book is hosted on may not have ads unless these entities are of non-profit status (are there that many non-profit publishers out there). This license, however, does not preclude another license which does allow commercial use, usually with publishers in the form of a contract. This would have to be negotiated by the copyright holders.

Put them together, and...

No commercial use and copyright reassignment would only require the group of leaders to handle contract negotiation with a publisher.

No commercial use and no copyright reassignment would essentially stop publishers from publishing our book unless they were non-profit, as there would be no way to coordinate all of the copyright holders in the creation of a contract with the publisher.

Commercial use and no copyright reassignment (what I like) only needs one party to negotiate with the publisher in order to get the book going. Much of the contract would be unnecessary as the rights are already granted, but we'd still need someone to work with the publisher (not a small task).

This is precisely how the works, which is published under license and by (who I imagine would publish our book under normal circumstances anyway).

Commercial use and no copyright reassignment WORKS. That's why I'm pushing so hard for it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:30 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:10 am
Posts: 11470
Location: Toronto


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:54 pm 
Offline
Tutorials Group

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:30 pm
Posts: 2692


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:17 pm 
Offline
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:04 pm
Posts: 14293
Location: Fremont, CA, USA
I know this goes against the grain a little bit, but I am willing to provide material for the project even if it means that Chris 'gets' to put only his name on the project. I know he said that he has no intention of hording the credit for this project, but the befenit presented in completing this project is compelling enough for me to provide whatever content I can, even to the extent that I am not credited with the provision of content and material. I know it sounds stupid and, realistically, I am not feeling the desire to debate my feelings on the matter. I also perfectly understand everyone else's reluctance to furnish content without appropriate licensing and copyright protection structures in place. I would, however, like to still provide content for use in the project so we can see it move forward, even if it is just a little bit.

Worse case scenario (there's that term again :roll: ): We, as a community, publish our 'book' as a series of entries in a Wiki under a Wiki type license. No publishing, no actual book. Just solid, usable material on a web site that might actually help people. Very similar ins style to a forum, but without the threading and comments.

If you take issue with my position on this issue, please PM me. I would hate to see this thread get cluttered with people not agreeing with my stance on providing content for this project.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:26 pm 
Offline
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 10:24 pm
Posts: 6887
I would figure that all contributors would be listed in a "credits" section. I'm not sure wiki style would work though as I remember way back it was mentioned that it should be in html, pdf and 1 other format I believe.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:49 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:13 pm
Posts: 5978
Location: Odessa, Ukraine
Robert, I would like to see more people working on this project with such attitude.

According to my estimations it's at least 3 months till we would get any solid body of text. Until then the project is considerably immune to any 'content withdraw' because any such withdraw would be 'no big deal'.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:02 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:13 pm
Posts: 5978
Location: Odessa, Ukraine


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 268 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group