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Need beta testers for proprietary software...VERY LONG!!!

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:14 pm
by alex.barylski
Edit if this is in the wrong forum, I apoloigize, but I figured it's general "enough" to keep under general...

Not sure if this is appropriate for this forum, but you, by now, should know that I know very little and therefore be easily forgiven :)

The title will likely garner some interest if for any other reason...because programmers love bickering...

Why would I want to test your software if it's NOT even GPL'ed you might say?

I don't know...I can't answer that...I would...just because...

Experience, kudos, etc...

If the title really <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> you off and you know where this is going, just click back on the browser window and pretend you never read this. ;)

Still interested? I'll explain...pardon the length but what i'm asking I figured it would be appropriate to explain my background to either instill trust or scrap it altogather...

Personal history: Having been a self taught software developer, starting at a very early age (before most people even knew what computers were) I have always and still do look for ways to improve my skillsets...it's my passion, my hobby and my life!!!

I have sacrificed love, family and even funerals to remain at my computer programming or reading something which captivated me. Hell I skipped out of most of school...not to smoke pot behind the hockey bleachers like most kids who skipped, but because I was in the public library reading books by Peter Norton or Windows 32 SDK programming, assembly, pascal you name it I've done it.

Suffice it say, I dropped out in Gr. 10 because I wasn't interested in learning quadratic equations or calculus (although I did stick around for Physics and computer science, but barely passed) but instead, my passion was to program a flight simulator operating system - for optimal efficiency of course (having played MSFS since version 3 I think) ;)

I've since given up on that dream, realizing it's too much work for one man and my interest in aviation has dwindled since 911 (damn terrorists)...

Anyways, the point being...clearly I'm very passionate about programming, software development and almost everything it offers...this is what I plan on doing til the day of my death, for me, it's an art as much as a science.

As a high school drop out, I have had very little success landing a job any where locally as most companies prefer BSc. minimums (which I can understand) despite having an aptitude evaluation suggesting at least 3-4 year level in comp. sci

I looked into writing a challenge exam a while back and the prof. I spoke with agreed I would likely pass 2nd year, but 3rd and 4th required physical class attendance - so I haven't bothered plus the lack of funding has prevented me from continuing further.

Currently I sustain a life by living as poorly as possible and working on odd jobs I find at various places on the Internet (which I am tired of doing and competing for) and 3 days week I work a 9-5 driving auto parts around the city (they hired me like greased lightning with a 10 year perfect drivers abstract :P ). Needless to say I hate my job!!! But it does allow me some down time, when I park and pull out the books and start reading or sketch ideas on my little pad (I have at least 1000, 100 page scribble pads full of notes and ideas i've taken over the years - no kidding).

The minute I get home I usually workout for an hour or two and hit the computer until midnight doing things like script repair for designers, etc...which I hate sooooooo much it's not even funny...I've gotten to the point where I fix until it works and I don't care how - which for me is heart breaking (as programming is my art as a tattooist who inks garbage would be be upset, so am I) but a neccary evil as most designers don't care to pay $$$ to have things done properly - despite making 10 times what I make.

So why don't you change it then? Like Einstein once said: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity"....or something like that...

Well I've tried...I've applied at numerous places locally and they won't have me...likely because much of my projects were incomplete or my snippets of code are so esoteric, you would need to have alot of time on your hands to figure out what it's doing...

Either way, I've excepted I ain't getting in anywhere locally...and as for globally...considered it...not interested as of yet...and besides I have applied and various places (a few whom I plan on entering direct competition with) and they won't have me either...

Perhaps my resume is shoddy...as I've never been shown how to properly make a resume, mine sound more like...formal letters to employers explaining why they would hire me. :P Maybe godamn junk mail detectors are responsible for my not being hired...? :P

Anyways...you get the point as to why I have decided I'll stay put...

A few months ago while working on a little program...I decided this time I was gonna stick it out and actually finish the damn thing (which I had done before for a guy who hired me, but I was getting paid) which I have...and as far as I can tell it works... :)

It is a flat file CMS which strives to accomplish 4 things better than my direct competition (in order of importance and capacity):

Code: Select all

1) organic SEO friendly web pages - no database required or mod_rewrite
2) Template driven web pages and control panel - entire site layout can be changed in blink of an eye (more than one template are allowed)
3) Rebrandable and made easy - using a simple template engine it's easy to change the layout of my application to appear as though my clients developed it
4) Easy to use...unlike many other CMS applications...I almost have my mother trained how to begin building a web site from a pre-designed template...
Here's the caveat and whats holding me back...

1) I have access to only a limited number of servers (my desktop WinXP and PHP5 and my various shared hosts all with same company, so PHP is the same). Because of this I haven't been able to formally test as well as I would like. Although the code base is in desperate need of re-write (which I'm already working on) so long as the application works on the front end, for now, I can accept that as client users could care less how an application works behind the scense, so long as it works!!!

2) I have tried throwing everything at my application and except for the occasional JScript error (which I can't be bothered fixing because I think next re-write I'll try and avoid using javascript) everythign seems to work ok. However installation is another problem altogather and yet, very important it's easy and seamless as possible...

Seamless will have to wait...for now I'll offer free installs until I get a script written to take care of that. What I am worried about is custom installs...

For example I installed the application a while back in a directory other than the original name and everything crapped...so I went in, fixed everything and that seems to work...then hyperlinks stopped working in my WYSIWYG editor...so I fixed that...and so on...altogather I've fixed about 20 bugs since installing in another directory...

Sooo now I am completely freaked out and worried that when someone other than me tries to setup and install (which is nothing really but uploading files and changing a config.php file as settings are currently stored in GLOBALS) everything will crap out again!!!

I expect errors, trials and tribulations...it wouldn't be programming if I didn't...and hell...I have a thick skin so I can take screaming and yelling from clients...

But I would sleep better at night knowing another programmer has reviewed my install process, tried it themselves and successfully got everything working up to par.

So my appeal to the community (targeted at specific group of people actually, but beggers can't be choosers so I won't discriminate unless I can :P ) begins now...

Knowing that, I am whom I am and make what I make (monetarily) and plan on doing what I plan on doing (commercially)...

Would there be anyone on here interested in playing with my application, installing and testing it and giving me feedback (even on codebase - despite the next version being drastically different)?

If so, there are a few stipulations I have.....which I would *really* professionally appreciate if they were honoured (hence the trust issue and discriminating)...

1) For the time being, I'm keeping it closed source...I'm not convinced a small application which can easily be duplicated and made GPL'ed would do well under any other license, considering my target audience as well. My competition keeps everything proprietary, so for now, so will I...however I will constantly review my market and may (depending on many things) eventually release OSS...

For this reason, it is very important I ask that NONE of my code be copied, publicly shared, etc...

Also, if anyone on this board ever asks a question which my code solves and you get the idea from my code, I ask you not share my techniques with users in this forum or others. I know this sounds like I want my cake and to eat it too, but thats the business of close source software and stifling competition. I shouldn't say stifle competition, but I certainly (at least when starting out) don't want to expedite their success over mine either.

2) Seeing how programmers are my direct competition I ask that you NEVER suggest to a fellow programmer, he/she look at my products, etc to solve their problems...or link to my web site in this forum or any other programming related forum...

Sounds silly...when I need all the advertising/marketing I can get, why would I say this? Well it's simple...thats how I found my market in the first place...so if I can enter a market why can't someone else???

Are you still here? :P

If you've read this far, I must say I really appreciate your interest...I'd buy you a beer if I could and introduce you to all my lady friends (or dude if your a gal) as quite the intellectual. :)

Anyways, one more thing to make note of...as I want to get everything out in the open so there are no surprises, cuz in business surprise is seldom good...

I am not looking to hire you or contract work out to you...nor do I expect hours of labour...a simple test install and play will suffice...however the more time and familiar you become the more I appreciate you efforts obviously...and the hard I will try to one day meet you in person and buy you that damn beer ;)

I am NOT looking for partnerships, but if your efforts are really obvious, I will do my best to reward you financially and "minority" partnership is then possible...if your efforts are continuous and your financial requests are within budget and considered fare.

Ideally, someone with some time on their hands who likes to play with code and try and break things or find bugs and submit simple patches...

Any changes you make will be recorded and citation will eventually ensue in publicly available documentation, credits, etc...as well as source code comment citation.

I will NOT ever try and hinder anyones efforts, in fact in person, I am well known for doing just the opposite - as I hate doing my best and going above and beyond my call of duty and never getting even a thank you for it. 8)

One last thing to note...

I have an ideal list of candidates who I would like to have read through this and agree to everything (quite a few, about 30 members) however I will likely (if the opportunity is given to me) select one or two.

My selection will be based on many variables and many of you I am quite familiar with (both in personality, style, level of experience, etc) as I have read your blogs, web sites, flickr, reading your various posts, etc...

I am generally interested in people whom interest me...so in saying this, if your a forum newbie with 10 posts...I probably won't select you to beta test my application...so there is no need to reply to this message...

I have a web site up and running (although not xhtml compliant - it's from what i've been told thus far quite professional and complete) I also have a demo web site where public can view and play with the CMS applciation (although updates need be applied) documentation is lacking, but I'm working towards that...as well as a marketing plan, templates, etc...

I have made a similiar appeal to a few graphics communities to assist me in handling more business/marketing/etc endeavours...obviously offering more venture appeal as the workload is more intense, at least up front. Keep in mind what I said of those whom go above and beyond call of duty...venture opprotunities are available as well depending on performance.

Anyways, thats my story and I'm sticking to it... :)

Thanks for your attention and hopefully interest...

You can reply using this forum as obviously I check it daily...but you can also send me an email:

nuweb1@shaw.ca or add me to MSN nuweb1@hotmail.com

I really only need a few people to test it and only one individual to possibly assist further...so don't be offended (not that you would be) if I don't return contact in regards to this message.

p.s-I apologize for the overly verbose, wordy topic (and possibly inappropriate) topic.

Cheers

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:40 am
by Ollie Saunders
I got about two thirds through your post and now i think i want to kill myself.

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:38 pm
by Christopher
I skimmed it to avoid having any suicidal feelings. As usual Hockey, you're a little bit ... well ... kooky. SoaP

Short version: Hockey want testers for yet another proprietary CMS.

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:16 pm
by Ollie Saunders
yeah hockey my advise to you is. Don't post your life story. nice people will say nothing and the rest will slate you about it because you really sound like a loser. Oh wow I'm obviously not a nice person then oh well :P . In this case nobody read your post because of it.

Don't write a CMS the market doesn't need another CMS. Write something that hasn't been written before and make a difference to the world, then someone might employ you. Oh and get out more. Maybe then you won't be quite to introspective only so much is healthy and finally please don't flame me.

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:31 pm
by Chris Corbyn
ole wrote:Don't write a CMS the market doesn't need another CMS. Write something that hasn't been written before and make a difference to the world, then someone might employ you.
Actually I strongly disagree. If everyone had that attitude software would be like old carpet. Firefox would never have been invented, because Internet Explorer already existed. Open Office would not be around because Microsft Office exists. We'd have one web forum as opposed to the selection we have now.... The desire to develop better software can only possibly be a good thing since it creates competition which as a result, forces everyone to start improving what's already there... things move forward this way.

Ok rant over... I still didn't get all the way through your post :P

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:05 pm
by Ollie Saunders
Firefox would never have been invented, because Internet Explorer already existed. Open Office would not be around because Microsft Office exists.
there were excellent reasons for these being created. can you think of an excellent reason to write yet another CMS? Then again I'm not saying that nobody should ever write another CMS ever again because of course they can be improved and no doubt CMSes in ten years time will be very different and a great deal better but in this case there is nothing more impressive than to think up a unique idea for an application and write it.
The desire to develop better software can only possibly be a good thing since it creates competition which as a result, forces everyone to start improving what's already there... things move forward this way.
absolutely

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:17 pm
by Christopher
d11wtq wrote:Firefox would never have been invented, because Internet Explorer already existed.
Uh ... Firefox is part of the Mozilla project ... uh ... which is the open-sourced Netscape browser ... uh ... which existed before IE.
d11wtq wrote:Open Office would not be around because Microsft Office exists.
Not really great examples because the number of browsers and office suites is and has been rather small, whereas there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of CMSs.

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:55 pm
by RobertGonzalez
ole wrote:yeah hockey my advise to you is. Don't post your life story. nice people will say nothing and the rest will slate you about it because you really sound like a loser. Oh wow I'm obviously not a nice person then oh well :P . In this case nobody read your post because of it.

Don't write a CMS the market doesn't need another CMS. Write something that hasn't been written before and make a difference to the world, then someone might employ you. Oh and get out more. Maybe then you won't be quite to introspective only so much is healthy and finally please don't flame me.
That's a litle harsh. Hockey brought something that is obviuosly of value to him to this community. We, as both help seekers and contributors to this community, do the same thing quite often when we put our two cents in or ask for opinions. Give the guy a break. He obviously finds the community members here worthy of bringing this topic to and we should be professional to at least give him the courtesy of a nice 'No thanks'.

Hockey:
Dang, dude, that was the longest monologue I have ever read on a forum (yes, I read through the whole, entire, extremely long and very prosaic thing). :wink: It sounds like you have a passion for what you are doing. However, I think you might be asking the wrong community for help in this matter simply because of the requirements you are placing on the proposed testers of your app. Not only is it a closed source, don't ask don't tell, set up, but you are essentially asking for a non-compete, non-disclosure agreement as well. I would find it very difficult to play around with a code base and NOT try to gleen something from it. Would I beta test your app? Maybe, but the parameters would certainly need to be loosed up.

However, don't stop trying. If your product is as you good as your security requirements make it out to be, you are certainly on to something. Keep it up, and good luck.