Programs on Linux

Whether you are using Linux on the desktop or as a server, it's still good that you're using Linux. Linux related questions go here.

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redmonkey
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Post by redmonkey »

I have quite a few Linux boxes, although most of them are servers or development boxes.

After spending the last three days (granted on and off) trying to setup a Linux desktop, I would have to disagree that Linux and Windows are just as easy to use as each other. I have to admit that I was installing a Linux distro (Debian) that the motherboard manufacturer openly states they don't support, so I knew prior it was not going to be easy.

The first problem was that the usual generic 'VESA' and 'VGA' X drivers did not like the video card so much so that when trying to start X all I got was a flash of a login box then a completely blank screen, followed by a fallback to console with X complaining. So off I went and compiled the latest source for X and managed to get that up and running (only basic without support for most of the extended features of the card).

The next problem, no sound (unless I want to opt for the system beep LOL). This was quite a problem, to the extent that most of the last two days have been spent compiling all the required drivers (audio and video) into a freshly compiled kernel. Some five compiles later and I now have a system with sound (only in KDE though as GNOME seems to just blast white noise out as soon as it starts). Still at least I now have a kernel which is optimized for my processor (C3 Nehemiah) so I supose some benefit has come out of it, although I haven't fully tested the video card as yet so there may still be more headaches to come.

Now I don't consider myself green when it comes to setting up Linux (I spend most of my days compiling linux code) but that particular box was hard work.

The amusing thing is, I have set up an identical box with win2K and that took 45 minutes start to finish (including the hard-drive format).

Anyway, here is the fruits of my labours (not very exciting but it was only finally up and running an hour ago).

Image

Next up, I'll be upgrading to KDE3 but I think I may wait until there is a stable Debian package for that.

One thing that did amuse me during the whole process, even though I managed to get KDE up and running which comes with quite a few general text editors, I found I was still dropping into a console to us VI for all the config file editing.

At the end of the day I agree that once the box is set up the usability of Linux is pretty comparable to Windows but getting there can be hard work and in many cases, it's not for the faint hearted. I don't have much experience with too many Linux distros, but I have always found RedHat to be very easy to install, it's a petty I just don't like it!

When it comes to day to day desktop environment Windows is still my OS of choice. For what it's worth my current set up is as follows...

1 x Debian (woody) on x86 (CVS servers)
1 x Debian (woody) on x86 (PDC server)
4 x Debian (woody) on x86 (File servers)
1 x Debian (woody with bits of Sarge) on PPC (MAC G4) (main compilier and FTP server for Debian packages)
2 x Debian (woody testing) on PPC (MAC G4) (Distributed compiliers)
1 x Debian (woody testing) on PPC (MAC G5) (Distributed compilier)
1 x Windows NT 3.5 (yes it's an old boy) (compilier)
1 x Win2k (compilier)
2 x Win2k (desktops)
2 x Debian (woody) on x86 (desktops)
1 x Debian (woody testing) on x86 (desktop)
Steveo31
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Post by Steveo31 »

Yeah I figured it wasn't going to be as easy, but from what I hear/have read it is worth it in terms of stability, etc. You sparked another question of mine about these desktops... what is this KDE software I read about? Is it some kinda desktop mod for linux?
redmonkey
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Post by redmonkey »

Some distros are easier than others, I don't have any real knowledge of too many distros so I don't think I could advise too much on which distro would best suit your needs.

I would recommend fielding the question as to users favourite distro and specifically asking why. I would also recommend compiling a short list from the responses and trying to clear time and try out as many of them as you can and see if any one particular distro appeals to you.

Also, if you are removing Windows from your machine I would recommend sparking up the device manager first and getting as much info about your hardware Manufacturers/Model numbers (all this stuff comes in handy when trying to locate drivers). If you have a named PC with well known hardware then you are probably OK (I would very much doubt you would be the first to stick Linux on it if this is the case). If you have a generic unamed PC with obscure hardware you will probably be in for a hard time with some distros.

With regard to KDE and similar, KDE is a desktop environment, it is essentially a set of software apps (desktop/text editors/word processing/mail/internet/imaging etc...) it provides a graphical user interface between you and the Linux OS. In simplistic terms, it's a bit like Litestep for win32 enviroments (it's actually alot more complex than that but should give you and idea) which gives you the ability to customize your desktop exactly the way you like it. You can visit the main KDE website for more info.

For me, Debian is my distro of choice, I find Debian quite easy to work with their package managment is superb and Debian has a good reputation for security. I have my boxes setup to check for updates (apps and security) on a nightly basis, they then go download the updates but not install them, I can then review and install which (if any) packages I want. Also, I have boxes that have not required rebooting for at least two years! But the set up process is not for the inexperienced (as you may have guessed from my previous post). With that particular box, I had to take the base Debian (woody) install and pretty much compile everything I wanted/needed right down to the kernel, it's up and running but to be honest, I haven't tested the USB or Firewire support as yet so there may be more headaches around the corner. If you have little or no knowledge of Linux and/or building software it's not a place you want to find yourself.

Having said that, I have thrown RedHat at various boxes and everything has gone alot smoother, I'd recommend at least trying RedHat as a possible. I'm sure others will have opinions on which distro they prefer and why.

It is definately worth looking at Linux as an every day solution, some things are easier in a Linux environment that in Windows and vice versa. As most of the people on this forum are developing for the web it would be good for them to know at least a little about the OS that runs the majority of web services.
slimsam1
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Re: Programs on Linux

Post by slimsam1 »

Steveo31 wrote:I assume the lot of you are running linux for other-than-server purposes. Can you use all the proggies on Windows on linux too? Few to name:

AIM
MSN Messenger
Firefox

...the like.
Gaim allows you to chat with AIM and MSN buddies. Unfortunately, you don't get an of the large, beautiful advertisements thrown in your face with Gaim.

File transfer with AIM works, as does Image IM and buddy profiles, but most of the fluffy features don't work, especially with MSN.

Firefox absolutely works in linux. As does the Mozilla suite.
Leedsoft Solutions
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Post by Leedsoft Solutions »

You guys might want to check out FreeBSD. It's pretty stable, easy to use, and compatible with most Linux programs. I went to this from Mandrake and I can prefered it more!
rewted
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Post by rewted »

http://www.knoppix.com

Debian based so you still get your apt-get installer.
Runs from a CD if you like it install to your hard drive... its great autodetects and installs everything for you automagically... pretty nice.

if anything, it makes a GREAT rescue disk. :)
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djohnson
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Location: here

Post by djohnson »

Beind a Active Directory administrator I just want to comment on a Windows network being a pain in the ass. I love Windows and I like linux also, running windows and linux clients and servers i have to admit that windows is 10 times easier than linux. It takes me 10 min to find a solution to a windows problem where it can take me days to find a solution to a linux problem. And yes spyware and virus's are a problem, but hey if linux keeps growing you never know maybe one day it will be on more than 2% of the desktops. Then it to will have the same problems. Im just saying dont hate windows, it makes my job real easy.
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