UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
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UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
I've worked as a UI Designer for 3 years now. I'm looking for another job and for some reason these companies want the UI Designer to know advanced Javascript, Actionscript, and AJAX also. Doesn't this sound more like a front-end developer?
Maybe I've been out of the job market for too long because my job as a UI Developer now is Photoshop, HTML, CSS, and little bit of Javascript. The Javascript is something you can get off the web and change it to fit your needs.
Can somebody tell me if they are running into the same issue? Are you finding you have to become an advanced JS master, Ajax guru, and Actionscript pro to get a UI Designer job?
Maybe I've been out of the job market for too long because my job as a UI Developer now is Photoshop, HTML, CSS, and little bit of Javascript. The Javascript is something you can get off the web and change it to fit your needs.
Can somebody tell me if they are running into the same issue? Are you finding you have to become an advanced JS master, Ajax guru, and Actionscript pro to get a UI Designer job?
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alex.barylski
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Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
If I were put into a hiring position for a front-end developer I would focus on:
1. Accessibility/Usability
2. XHTML/CSS
3. W3C compliance WAI/XHTML/etc
4. Image splicing
I wouldn't expect any developer to have much skill in design, such as photoshop, other than splicing a design into optimized pieces.
If your advertising yourself as a UI designer you are blurring the lines and probably stepping outside the scope of what many would consider the responsibilities of each role.
Designer is someone who designs, design being a vague term. Software design has nothing to do with visual representation of a software system. UI design would strike me as someone who specialized in taking a wireframe sketch of an complete application and skinning/themeing it, nothing more. No splicing into valid XHTML, etc. Both are incredibley different skillsets IMO.
Maybe you need to articulate more clearly your specialty is in skinning or theming a *visual* design overtop of a wireframe.
I say wireframe, because I always prefer to take control (as a developer) of this phase of the SDLC. Designing an plaesant visual theme and pragmattically laying out where all functionalities should be located are different skills, IMO.
Blurring those responsibilities can have horrible consequences. Pretty doesn't always equate to practical. Sketching a wireframe and stepping through those wireframes as an end user (before even writing a line of code) help you discover usability issues, accessibility, etc. All of these issues are proabbly of no interest to someone to does mostly new media (photoshop, videos, 3D, print, etc).
What are you responsibilities? What do you market yourself as?
Cheers,
Alex
1. Accessibility/Usability
2. XHTML/CSS
3. W3C compliance WAI/XHTML/etc
4. Image splicing
I wouldn't expect any developer to have much skill in design, such as photoshop, other than splicing a design into optimized pieces.
If your advertising yourself as a UI designer you are blurring the lines and probably stepping outside the scope of what many would consider the responsibilities of each role.
Designer is someone who designs, design being a vague term. Software design has nothing to do with visual representation of a software system. UI design would strike me as someone who specialized in taking a wireframe sketch of an complete application and skinning/themeing it, nothing more. No splicing into valid XHTML, etc. Both are incredibley different skillsets IMO.
Maybe you need to articulate more clearly your specialty is in skinning or theming a *visual* design overtop of a wireframe.
I say wireframe, because I always prefer to take control (as a developer) of this phase of the SDLC. Designing an plaesant visual theme and pragmattically laying out where all functionalities should be located are different skills, IMO.
Blurring those responsibilities can have horrible consequences. Pretty doesn't always equate to practical. Sketching a wireframe and stepping through those wireframes as an end user (before even writing a line of code) help you discover usability issues, accessibility, etc. All of these issues are proabbly of no interest to someone to does mostly new media (photoshop, videos, 3D, print, etc).
What are you responsibilities? What do you market yourself as?
Cheers,
Alex
Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
Right now my job title is UI Designer. My responsibilities are designing UI applications, banners, and emails in photoshop. I take the design and code the xhtml or html and CSS. I use javascript for - popup widows and tooltips when needed. I also test and test for usability. I then give the images and code to the backend developers.
But what I'm getting at is most UI Designer jobs that I see today are looking for advanced javascipt, advanced flash, and advanced jquery experience. How can a company expect somebody to be this advanced as a coder and also do UI design, etc. It doesn't make a lot of sense. They want everything in one person which means they won’t get quality in some of these areas or are UI Designers actually learning Javascript, JQuery, and Actionscript? I mean are you learning to become an advanced coder to get a UI Designer job?
But what I'm getting at is most UI Designer jobs that I see today are looking for advanced javascipt, advanced flash, and advanced jquery experience. How can a company expect somebody to be this advanced as a coder and also do UI design, etc. It doesn't make a lot of sense. They want everything in one person which means they won’t get quality in some of these areas or are UI Designers actually learning Javascript, JQuery, and Actionscript? I mean are you learning to become an advanced coder to get a UI Designer job?
- Christopher
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Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
I thought XHTML was sort of a dead end and everything was going HTML5?PCSpectra wrote:2. XHTML/CSS
3. W3C compliance WAI/XHTML/etc
Do people still do this now that you can float and position images?PCSpectra wrote:4. Image splicing
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- daedalus__
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Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
yeah the xhtml2 charter is getting dropped this year. there is an xhtml5 something to be a sibling of html5 i think but i can't find much info on it tonight.
and you still have to splice images together using css right though?
like if i make a css2 button with round corners it takes 3 images cut from one image at least.
and you still have to splice images together using css right though?
like if i make a css2 button with round corners it takes 3 images cut from one image at least.
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alex.barylski
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Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
I consider a designer and developer two very different trades. I no of no professional developers who are equally talented in design -- at least none recognized by the designer gurus and development gurus. They use different sides of the brain don't they?But what I'm getting at is most UI Designer jobs that I see today are looking for advanced javascipt, advanced flash, and advanced jquery experience. How can a company expect somebody to be this advanced as a coder and also do UI design, etc.
Anyways, the problem is, designers often by requirement get forced into learning a little JS because backend/server side developers have enough on their plate when building professional high quality applications. Security, architecture, standards, testing, etc. I almost always request someone else handle the front end, JS programming, etc. I also suggest that designers stay doing nothing but design, as they rarely make good developers and visa-versa.
A designer does (perhaps more accurate to say new media producer):
- Maya (3D modelling)
- Photoshop
- QuarkXpress
- Illustrator (icons)
- Flash (with basic scripting at the most)
- Traditional print
That is a lot to learn already but all within the same boundries of what ia required by most businesses. Sadly all to often I see many advertise XHTML, accessibility, usability, JS, SQL, PHP, Perl. When I see that on an application or requirement list I toss it in the trash immediately.
Client side developers would encompass:
- XHTML/HTML/CSS
- Accessibility/Usability
- JavaScript/jQuery/Mootools
- Image slicing
- Smarty/template engine or similar
- Basic PHP knowledge incase the template engine is alternative syntax
Server side developers would ideally have:
- Extensive PHP, LAMP experience
- Frameworks (Zend, SYmphony, CodeIgnitor, etc)
- Strong focus on security, standards, patterns
The list goes on for each of the three departments but the all have distinct responsibilities, IMO, which all to often get blurred togather and cause confusion and headaches for everyone involved.
Where a server side developer has to stay somewhat on top of security exploits and different systems like Debian, Redhat, Windows, Linux...a client side developer has to do something very similar with keeping up with cross browser issues and all the caveats. A designer has to stay in touch with the rapidly changing designs. Look at the sites of the late 1990's compared to today and web 2.0 designs. It almost saddens me when I see web sites with an nasty circa 1990's design. Then you look at jQuery and it's plesant gradients, rounded corners, nifty icons and color matching. That is a talent all in its own. Makes me envious
I'm a developer through and through...my interest is in systems analysis and architecture...I can't even draw stick men.They want everything in one person which means they won’t get quality in some of these areas or are UI Designers actually learning Javascript, JQuery, and Actionscript? I mean are you learning to become an advanced coder to get a UI Designer job
I think the terms 'designer' and 'developer' are vague and even when prceeded by an noun like 'software' or 'interface' it's still not totally clear. Which is why it's so important during the interview to establish exactly what it is your capable of doing and most importantly what your passionate about.
For some perhaps, I'm sticking with XHTML for the foreseeable future and gradually implementing HTML5 templates so client can switch dynamically as they see fit.I thought XHTML was sort of a dead end and everything was going HTML5?
LOL...I used the wrong term...I think I meant image 'slicing' basically taking a complete PSD layout from a designer and cutting it into small optimized pieces and positioning them with CSS, etc.Do people still do this now that you can float and position images?
Cheers,
Alex
- daedalus__
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Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
i very barely skimmed this but i agree with pcspectra. developers and designers do very different jobs. a lot of places want a golden goose and they aren't going to get that. you need to look for jobs based not on your job title but your experience as the software and technologies you are experienced with more often than not can be applied to many positions.
another thing to think about is how your work life is oging to be if you get a jobw ith a company who doesn't know what they want or are looking for. if they want someone who is a master designer to know an assortment of a programming in addition to making graphics that look like a classical painter made them do they really know what they are looking for? how good of a deal will it be to employed by someone like that anyway, right?
designers pass their stuff to developers. period. that's really how it is. if someone knows more than one facet they are a jack of all trades and therefore master of none. now depending on your product that isn't a bad thing but if you are dedicated to what you know how to do don't make compromises.
and i wanted to comment on the xhtml being dead thing. it isn't dead, its very popular and a very powerful standard. i would still use it. however, if you are writing a web application you want to use for the next ten years you wouldn't want to use a standard you know will be dropped in the next few years. it seems to me that html5 is where things are headed at the moment but its really up to you what you want to do. i've seen websites that use xml for their views, styled by css, and pre-processed by php. good deal, how long do you think before xml is legacy?
another thing to think about is how your work life is oging to be if you get a jobw ith a company who doesn't know what they want or are looking for. if they want someone who is a master designer to know an assortment of a programming in addition to making graphics that look like a classical painter made them do they really know what they are looking for? how good of a deal will it be to employed by someone like that anyway, right?
designers pass their stuff to developers. period. that's really how it is. if someone knows more than one facet they are a jack of all trades and therefore master of none. now depending on your product that isn't a bad thing but if you are dedicated to what you know how to do don't make compromises.
and i wanted to comment on the xhtml being dead thing. it isn't dead, its very popular and a very powerful standard. i would still use it. however, if you are writing a web application you want to use for the next ten years you wouldn't want to use a standard you know will be dropped in the next few years. it seems to me that html5 is where things are headed at the moment but its really up to you what you want to do. i've seen websites that use xml for their views, styled by css, and pre-processed by php. good deal, how long do you think before xml is legacy?
Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
No and no (for me). You still have to splice images to create a layout that is fluid (as in scales to the window properly), even if using absolute/floating whateverarborint wrote:I thought XHTML was sort of a dead end and everything was going HTML5?PCSpectra wrote:2. XHTML/CSS
3. W3C compliance WAI/XHTML/etcDo people still do this now that you can float and position images?PCSpectra wrote:4. Image splicing
Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
I'm a developer through and through and while I consider myself fairly competent in Adobe CS, I would never pretend to be an actual designer. I neither design our layouts, nor do I even write the template for it, but I don't shy away from getting my hands dirty with the HTML or Javascript libraries.
I think these issues become a matter of balance. I'm a PHP developer, but I'm certainly capable enough to contribute to designs, manipulate and change markup when needed, and even put together a new jQuery effect if necessary. Do I consider myself an expert in any of these distractions? Of course not, but all these technologies bleed into each other. PHP is my bread and butter but without knowing how it interacts with HTML/Javascript/CSS is virtually useless because at some I'm going to have to write the view scripts and you can bet that somewhere somehow your output will need to fit with the design.
You can say the same for just about any part of web development - databases; definitely not a DBA but I still possess the rudimentary knowledge necessary to work on the database if necessary. Its tough to be able to only wear one hat these days. If you don't want to wear multiple hats, you better be able to distinguish yourself as the best at what you do so that your employer is convinced its a waste of resources to have you do anything else.
I think these issues become a matter of balance. I'm a PHP developer, but I'm certainly capable enough to contribute to designs, manipulate and change markup when needed, and even put together a new jQuery effect if necessary. Do I consider myself an expert in any of these distractions? Of course not, but all these technologies bleed into each other. PHP is my bread and butter but without knowing how it interacts with HTML/Javascript/CSS is virtually useless because at some I'm going to have to write the view scripts and you can bet that somewhere somehow your output will need to fit with the design.
You can say the same for just about any part of web development - databases; definitely not a DBA but I still possess the rudimentary knowledge necessary to work on the database if necessary. Its tough to be able to only wear one hat these days. If you don't want to wear multiple hats, you better be able to distinguish yourself as the best at what you do so that your employer is convinced its a waste of resources to have you do anything else.
Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
I think I'm going to disagree with most people here. To me design is not about making images and positioning them with css, but rather putting everything together and understanding how UI works and organized into something accessible and easy to use and understand (much like the software design is not about coding specific methods, but laying out system architecture and having a clear overall picture of the system).
Thus if I was to organize frontend development team, I would include at least three kinds of people:
Thus if I was to organize frontend development team, I would include at least three kinds of people:
- UI designer(s). Responsible for producing UI specification (including wireframe sketches) and supervising graphic artists and frontend programmers. This position would likely be the most well paid in the team (a system architect is usually paid more than a programmer) and require more experience than others (ideally 10-15 years of experience).
- Graphic artist(s). Responsible for producing images (and animations probably where necessary). They are subordinate to UI designer.
- Frontend programmer(s). This position would be optional for some projects where there's not much programming on the frontend side and UI designer is able to put something together himself. Subordinate to UI designers, but have some autonomy in purely technical areas.
Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
Is anyone still using Quark? Talk about a seriously mismanaged product - with all the major publishing companies going purely Adobe I would have thought most designers were well out of the whole Quark mess.- QuarkXpress
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alex.barylski
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Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
I have no idea...QuarkXpress just came to mind...not a designer myself I only occassionally talk to them when I absolutely have too. 
Cheers,
Alex
Cheers,
Alex
Re: UI Designer Jobs - What is going on?
I'm not sure if it's the current company I work at or if it's a general thing, but usability experts and designers are not very common when designing applications here.
We have an extreme amount of own developed apps (700+) and we always have ongoing projects developing new apps for internal use.
I've become the go-to guy when in need of design or usability, but that should easily be a sepparate job as I think it's a necessity in order to create a useful and good app.
However when hiring people it's always about hiring project leaders or developers. Design and usability I guess is too abstract for some people.
We have an extreme amount of own developed apps (700+) and we always have ongoing projects developing new apps for internal use.
I've become the go-to guy when in need of design or usability, but that should easily be a sepparate job as I think it's a necessity in order to create a useful and good app.
However when hiring people it's always about hiring project leaders or developers. Design and usability I guess is too abstract for some people.