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Perfect Topic to Start: This Forum

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:49 pm
by jason
Obviously (unless you are new) I have been messing with the design and layout of the site. That's because the site is not only getting larger, but it's becoming more and more cumbersome. There is so much information here, and frankly, I don't want to loose it all. Not in the "Damn, the database crashed again" style, but rather in the "needle in a haystack" way.

With well over 100,000 posts, and many more coming every day (and no sign of slowing, quite the opposite), it's becoming important to consider not only the layout of the site (and it's design), but how to make it easy to use.

So let's start off with some of the things I have done and the reason for doing it.
  • The biggest change is the forum list on the left side on both the Portal page, the Forum view page, and the Topic view page. It's in exactly the same position on all three pages. Drilling down through the site from the front page has a feeling that the top and left side of the pages are in a frame, as they don't change.
  • The links at the top (Home|Forums|Memberlist|FAQ|Search|PHP Wiki) are highlighted, and appear on the top of every page. They will eventually replace the default links that appear at the Top Center of the page. They stand out more, and are easier to read then the default links.
  • Remove the title above the text "The Developer's Network". It was useless, and only served to take up vertical space.
  • Attempted to shrink the vertical space needed to display the site. I was scrolling way to much to get to posts.I still feel like there is way to much weight at the top of the page, and we can thin it out. Most likely, a redrawing of the PHPDN logo to coincide with the push to be more developer centric, rather than simply PHP. Hopefully, by removing the default links at the top and moving them to the new bold links (described in the second point) will allow us to slim up the header.
  • Finally moved the CSS out to its own file to make the pages much smaller. Now your browser can cache the CSS (why it took me so long, only God knows).
  • Split the forums up a bit more, and added a few. This will hopefully solve the problem of having so much information available, no one knows where to look! Seriously, can we blame someone for feeling overwhelemed at the amount of information on these forums, and we aren't even considered a large forum (yet). By splitting up the forums, we stand a chance of cleanly separating topics into something that is more easily managed.
Obviously, everyone is going to have an opinion on these changes. Hopefully by making these changes, I have done two things:
  1. Made the forums easier to use, and made using them more efficient.
  2. Shaken things up enough so that people realize that the old way really wasn't as efficient as it should be (honestly, it was down right inefficient).
So, rather than just flame me and say I am a moron for making these changes (after all, we all know I am a flame-retardent moron), let's work on how to take these changes, and apply other possible changes to improve the site as a whole.

Remember, we have the ability to make changes and test them out. It's not like we are going to suddenly loose sales. :D

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:07 pm
by John Cartwright
a redrawing of the PHPDN logo to coincide with the push to be more developer centric, rather than simply PHP
Are you wanting to design it yourself? Or can I give a jab @ it.. I got a few more ideas to push towards a developpers site rather than just a php source site as you so perfectly put it :)

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:10 pm
by jason
Phenom wrote:
a redrawing of the PHPDN logo to coincide with the push to be more developer centric, rather than simply PHP
Are you wanting to design it yourself? Or can I give a jab @ it.. I got a few more ideas to push towards a developpers site rather than just a php source site as you so perfectly put it :)
I am lazy. I like it when people do work for me, and then I can use it. :D

So by all means, take a shot at it!

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 12:53 am
by patrikG
The forums look very nice, Jason - much more high-powered and easier to navigate. Like Crush, the turtle-dude in Finding Nemo said: "Shweeeeet" :)

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 2:03 am
by Weirdan
Here is what I think of it:
  • Left menu in the topic view consumes valuable width. Sometimes lines in

    Code: Select all

    and

    Code: Select all

    are long, so post won't fit into the screen width. Left menu makes it even worse, produces more horizontal scrolling. Wouldn't it be enough to put 'Jump to' combo box there instead of that menu? Then you can add [i]useful[/i] links (or even forms) under it, such as 'Search'.
    [*]It would be great to have bigger 'quick reply' textarea.
    [*]'forward to bottom' link would be as useful as 'back to top' is
    [*]I'd suggest  new type of quick search: search for all topics $current_user participated in with new posts since last visit.[/list]

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 3:29 am
by JayBird
hmmmm.....i like what you have done, i can see what you are trying to do Jason.

Needs a bit of tweaking. The section directly above the start of the topic is hella messy

Mark

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 7:39 am
by McGruff
Great overall - I've been thinking for some time that we've outgrown a simple phpBB forum with new items like tutorials and the Wiki.

Not sure about the left-hand boxes. I agree with Wierdan about the need for width. Tricky one: the theoretical max words per line for best readability is not much more than a dozen or so. Narrow text columns are easier to read - I'd go for code though.

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 7:42 am
by McGruff
PS: early days getting used to it but I find I haven't been using the left hand links to browse forums. The full-screen listing highlights new replies since last visit which is more useful.

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 7:42 am
by magicrobotmonkey
yea me too with the width. I like wierdan's drop down box suggestion - something like the one right next to the qick reply box - or maybe with a mouse over event to dorp it down to reduce number of clicks?

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 8:05 am
by Bill H
Me too on the width issue, but overall I like the progress.

The width issue is a major one, though, in my opinion. Especially when, as Weirdan points out, there are lines of code involved. For "ease of navigation" you have sacrificed readability.

Plus, is the of navigation that greatly enhanced? Once you have scrolled down a bit the loss of readability is sacrificed for.. oops, nothing but blank real estate! Not very elegant imho.
Not consistent with the overall elegance of the design.

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 8:08 am
by magicrobotmonkey
yea even if you decide to keep it this way - if you can keep that bar from scrolling away that'd be cool

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:07 am
by phice
I really think we should name it 'DevNetwork', instead of PHPDN. Of course PHP will be the rulling web development language of all time, but it'll make our community start to look like a web development/design forum rather than just a 'basic php question' forum. ^_^

Great job, Jason. I'm liking the upgrades.

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:18 am
by jason
To address a couple issues:
  • I was originally going to work on having the sidebar display which forums have new posts. However, because of the time last night, I decided to stop. I was beginning to make stupid mistakes, and I didn't want to make any more. However, the side bar displaying where new posts are showing up will come.
  • Having the forums on the left hand side remain on the left side despite scrolling will be difficult when you consider screen sizes. I have been browsing other sites and looking at how they handle these same issues. I have also considered some of the suggestions posted here.
  • Sidebar alignment. A few people say they think the sidebar would be better if it was aligned with the top of the post, rather than where it is now. I thought so, too. That was originally how it was going to be. It actually didn't work out as well as you think it would. The benefit to it's placement right now is that it's consistant. It's there in the same spot on whatever page it is.
  • Width of posting area when you deal with code. Yup, that's an issue. One possibility I was playing around with was using the overflow property in css to make it so that code that would normally push the page out wider than the browser and force a horizonal scroll would instead have a scroll bar just for the code. The overflow property in css seems to be the best way to have this.
  • Links at the top. As I have said, it's all really messy up there. I will be cleaning it up. Right now, they get lost (though the bold links at the top are a bit more noticeable), so I will probably be pushing toward a tabbed design because I am a sucker for tabs.
Just some thoughts for now. Thanks for the input guys. =)

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:43 am
by McGruff
Hope I haven't sounded negative - thanks for your efforts. I know that a surprising amount of work is needed to create a really good design.

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:45 am
by malcolmboston
well unfortunately, i much much preferred it the way it was :cry:

when im at uni i am forced to use 800*600 have you seen the site at this resolution??? its enough to make your eyes water