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HTML/CSS/WCAG validator program?

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:18 pm
by wwwapu
I'm asking help to find a program that validates HTML and/or CSS and preferrably some WCAG issues too.

The reason why I'm asking this is that some people I'm teaching HTML basics don't have
a) fast enough internet connection or
b) sufficient language skills
to use
http://validator.w3.org/ or http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ or http://www.cynthiasays.com/ or http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html

For them and all the other with same kind of problems it would be very helpful if there were a desktop tool that could be used offline to find syntax errors in their code.

I have already tested briefly CSE lite and TagCheck and Top Style Lite. The problem with these seem to be that they do only part of the job and/or the full version costs money. Many people who are only learning HTML to make their personal home pages aren't that excited to pay anything for the extra tools.

If there is any useful, easy to use programs, please give a hint.

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:56 pm
by mudkicker
this would be perfect for me too

i found some but they are not free some time ago...

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:28 pm
by patrikG
Firefox's Developers Toolbar. Priceless.

Re: HTML/CSS/WCAG validator program?

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:13 pm
by Roja
wwwapu wrote:I'm asking help to find a program that validates HTML and/or CSS and preferrably some WCAG issues too.
You listed most of them..
wwwapu wrote:The reason why I'm asking this is that some people I'm teaching HTML basics don't have
a) fast enough internet connection
Validator doesnt need a fast internet connection, in any sense. Neither does lynxview (ha!), or cynthia says.
wwwapu wrote: b) sufficient language skills to use
Thats a significant problem. The need then is a proper knowledgable translator - thats not something any of the sites listed solve.

Domain-specific translation (ie, translating knowledge-specific fields, like law, medicine, or computers) is challenging. Obviously, multi-lingual native-speakers manage quite well, but finding a good automated site for that is rough.

I'm not aware of ANY good computer-specific auto-translators.

I guess what I'm saying is that the best answer to the first question ("What are good resources for validation") is at odds with the best answer for the second (unwritten) question ("In a foreign language").

As to spending money for tools, dont.

The best answer to the first question is to use Firefox's excellent web developer plugin, which sends you to (almost) all free-sites. The output on all of them can be quite usable at modem speeds, and while not easily translatable, are fairly understandable in english.

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:02 am
by wwwapu
The Firefox plugin seems quite nice, yet still it isn't actually offline. Basicly it is a bunch of very useful links, (validation tools). Nice anyways, thanks.

And what comes to auto-translators, they are all useless. At least I have never seen one that can translate anything to finnish correctly or even understandibly.

"fast enough connection" was a bit misleading. Actually I ment to say "fixed price connection" With modem connection one has to pay per phone call and for the connection time and with GPRS basicly by data transfer.Someone who is just learning HTML needs to validate page often because they simply cannot detect mistakes by themselves. And their HTML writing is slow because they don't have experience. This causes phone bills to grow unimaginably. And if one have to use GPRS connection the bills will be untolerable

If there were a program that could be translated by language file or something like that, it would be sufficient.
Errorcodes at W3C are easily understandable if you know just some english. But the useful hints after them require a bit more. And those hints are much more than useful. It helps more to know what might have caused the error than just knowing there is one.

Thank you very much for your efforts.

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:17 am
by patrikG
You seem to looking for a free HTML editor which includes CSS- and HTML validation tools. If that's the case, your original question was somewhat misleading.

There are many free HTML editors out there, HTML Kit is not a bad one ( http://www.chami.com/html-kit/ ), but it's been a long time since I've looked, there might be more current and better ones.

I don't quite understand why you would force lots of validators on people who are totally new to things like HTML. That could easily become overpowering and confusing to them.

Regarding machine-translation: not one piece of software or machinery can translate properly. Not even the most expensive commercial ones. Simply doesn't exist. Trust me, I have a friend who has been working at the language department of a university in London for over five years, specialising on just that. Not possible - check again in twenty years. ;)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:35 am
by wwwapu
patrikG wrote:You seem to looking for a free HTML editor which includes CSS- and HTML validation tools.
This is true. It could be editor or some other program. If it was editor, even better.

HTML-kit seems great at the first look, I'll try it right away. :P

As it says at HTML-kit page regarding "forcing validators":
HTML-kit wrote: Newcomers to web page design can benefit from letting it point out errors and provide suggestions on how to create standards-compliant pages.
You could say that it is kind of "mission" of mine to teach HTML straight by the standards in hope to see "better and more accessible web" in the future. I know one man cannot do very much, but atleast I have tried.

Twenty years? 8O Are you sure you aren't overly optimistic?

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:01 am
by timvw
btw, there are cellphone-emulators/simulators.... (usually java programs) that make development a lot cheaper :) (no need to make gprs connections....)

fe: http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/0,6566,034-2,00.html

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:03 am
by timvw
i misunderstood...... but you can dowload the w3 validators... and run them on your local server too....

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:43 pm
by wwwapu
Well, it was under my nose all the time. While testing HTML-kit I got interested in HTML Tidy, which is also integrated in HTML-kit and which I have tried some time back.

And that is the way to go. http://tidy.sourceforge.net/ is the project page and extremely easy to use GUI is TidyUI at http://users.rcn.com/creitzel/tidy.html#tidyui

This editor program checks and corrects HTML. It also can be configured to check WCAG 1, 2 or 3. Excellent! :P

There are only few difficulties left.
  • Language skills. Tidy UI and HTML Tidy are still only in english and I haven't found any translations instructions yet. Have you?
    TidyUI doesn't check CSS files
    Automatic correction can be harmful in terms of learning. If program makes enough correct corrections it can produce false trust for the automated operation. (And make the writer lazy)
Yet this what has been found is very promising.

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:58 pm
by Ambush Commander
Unfortunantely, they're not going to understand much of the delicacies of tags and attributes unless they get a better grasp on English. If I'm not mistaken, http://www.w3.org/ is multilingual. Have'em read up on some of the "pithy details" of web standards.