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What comes first, second, third & so on...

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:54 am
by exoticpublishing
Ok, I have an application that has needed to be developed for a while now & little by little I'm learning what I need to do to hire the right people to implement this.

I now realize that I need a DB Designer first & foremost even before the programmer (MySQL/PHP), but I thought a DB Designer whould know UI well, but I'm learning maybe they don't, so at which point do I hire someone for the UI, or is that job left to a web designer?

Thanks


Michelle

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:40 am
by Skittlewidth
You know, it is possible to hire one person who can do all three.... :wink:

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:44 am
by pickle
There are lots of people out there who are capable of doing all 3. If you do have to split it up though, the separation is usually made between the programming & the UI. Sometimes the interface is made by one person & the DB/PHP by another.

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:24 pm
by exoticpublishing
LOL, yeh & I heard those people cost a fortune :)

I'm a small growing company.

Can you recommend people who know all 3 so I can at least get some quotes.

Thanks


Michelle :)
Skittlewidth wrote:You know, it is possible to hire one person who can do all three.... :wink:

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:25 pm
by exoticpublishing
Ahh, a fellow Canadian :)

So the programmer does one part & the DB Designer & UI is usually one person?


Michelle
pickle wrote:There are lots of people out there who are capable of doing all 3. If you do have to split it up though, the separation is usually made between the programming & the UI. Sometimes the interface is made by one person & the DB/PHP by another.

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:38 pm
by exoticpublishing
Also I don't think you guys told me what comes first, second etc. in the development process.

I wanted to know that.

On a different note, how does one see one's own posts. This MB isn't like others where I can go to CP & check list subscriptions & I have to keep going the long way around & if my post gets buried, I'll never find it.

Thanks


Michelle

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:38 pm
by feyd
They are often the same person for small sites, studios, etc.

Programmer and Database "designer" are often the same person until you actually need a decent size team. Even then, it's rare (in my experience) that they are a different person unless you're dealing with very specialized databases or programming.

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:42 pm
by josh
Database always has to come before or at the same time as code. UI can come in at any time really because if your programmer has a good design he will make it flexible enough to change at any time.

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:00 pm
by exoticpublishing
Well that's not what I've been told in the past.

I was told programmers are just coders & do what they are told & DB designers make it so the application is organized, no time is wasted going back & forth to add more features b/c everything is laid out from the onset.

As for UI, is that the front end that a web designer would do? I'm confused on that one.

Thanks :)


Michelle

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:47 am
by feyd
It is so rare that you'll have every detail laid out before starting. A huge percentage of the time a client will want to add a "simple" feature or new sections or any number of other things.

Yes, UI is what a web designer would create. UI stands for User Interface.

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:54 am
by JayBird
Yep, i do all 3 for the company i work for.

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:55 am
by pickle
exoticpublishing wrote:I was told programmers are just coders & do what they are told & DB designers make it so the application is organized, no time is wasted going back & forth to add more features b/c everything is laid out from the onset.
Who told you that? A DB designer? ;)



Make a new topic in the 'Job Hunt' forum. Anyone interested will surely apply.

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:04 am
by sheila
exoticpublishing wrote:Also I don't think you guys told me what comes first, second etc. in the development process.
Ideally the order would be
1. write detailed specs
2. design database and UI based on specs (can be one or two people)
3. write code based on specs and incorporate the UI


Often its
1. design UI
2. infer specs from the design
3. design database
4. write code
5. add UI

I don't often get detailed specs. Just generalized specs and page samples from a designer.
Things go smoother with detailed specs, where everything is covered.

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:09 am
by Christopher
exoticpublishing wrote:Well that's not what I've been told in the past.

I was told programmers are just coders & do what they are told & DB designers make it so the application is organized, no time is wasted going back & forth to add more features b/c everything is laid out from the onset.
That's a good one: coders just do what they are told! Good luck with that...

I would recommend starting with a design that includes a detailed site map and page layouts that everyone agrees on. That way you, the designers(s) and developer(s) have some idea of what they are building. As for "DB designers", I have really never heard of such a thing. There certainly are database specialists (DBAs) who will tune the database installation, table layout/relations and SQL queries -- but it is ususally for large projects that they are brought in up front. You can certainly have someone like that look over the database and suggest optimizations to the programmer (if you are having performance problems). For most small/medium web projects a good programmer and designer are enough.

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:37 am
by sheila
arborint wrote:That's a good one: coders just do what they are told! Good luck with that...
Obviously every situation is different but I've been in situations where it was a relief to be told exactly
what to do. Imagine working on a site for a type of business that you know nothing about and don't
care to learn about. You can either spend time learning about the business, so you can make intelligent
decisions about the site, or have someone that already knows the business or products tell you exactly
what needs to be done.

Sometimes it's nice to be able to say "You have to tell me exactly what you want the code to do."