Some general questions about working as a PHP coder
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Some general questions about working as a PHP coder
Hello. I'm quite new to the board, so I'll explain a little about my situation. I'm currently working (full-time) as a SAP Sales & Distribution specialist in Italy. I also manage a large Oracle database that interfaces with SAP, which has an ASP front-end. I used to work as a Domino Developer for my old company, where I helped design and implement their intranet. At home, I have been messing with PHP for a few months, and I'm picking it up very quickly due to my background in programming for Web, and my current work with Oracle/ASP. I'm currently bored out of my skull with my job, and want a change.
Here's my questions:
1) How many of you are full-time employed as PHP (or indeed "General Web") coders?
2) To those of you who take contract work, do you ever find yourself in a "between contracts" phase? If so, how long do these phases usually last? Also, what's the average length of a contract?
3) What's the job market like at the moment for PHP/Web programmers? Up/down? Easy to find new work?
4) How much experience have you got with PHP? What's the minimum experience you feel is necessary before a potential employer takes you seriously?
5) Is it a good idea to do small free projects to build a portfolio?
6) How much do you use other skills during your work (management, marketing, sales etc.)
7) Do you specialise in a particular business area?
8) Do you work to a pre-written spec, or do you contribute actively to the specification from the conception to the end?
9) What sort of money is in it?
10) Currently PHP is a hobby, which means I do it for pleasure. Do you think that doing it full time would turn it into a bloody nightmare, like my current work is?
Thanks for your time,
GM
Note to the moderators - I don't think that I've put this in the wrong place, but if you think differently, feel free to move it.
Here's my questions:
1) How many of you are full-time employed as PHP (or indeed "General Web") coders?
2) To those of you who take contract work, do you ever find yourself in a "between contracts" phase? If so, how long do these phases usually last? Also, what's the average length of a contract?
3) What's the job market like at the moment for PHP/Web programmers? Up/down? Easy to find new work?
4) How much experience have you got with PHP? What's the minimum experience you feel is necessary before a potential employer takes you seriously?
5) Is it a good idea to do small free projects to build a portfolio?
6) How much do you use other skills during your work (management, marketing, sales etc.)
7) Do you specialise in a particular business area?
8) Do you work to a pre-written spec, or do you contribute actively to the specification from the conception to the end?
9) What sort of money is in it?
10) Currently PHP is a hobby, which means I do it for pleasure. Do you think that doing it full time would turn it into a bloody nightmare, like my current work is?
Thanks for your time,
GM
Note to the moderators - I don't think that I've put this in the wrong place, but if you think differently, feel free to move it.
1) How many of you are full-time employed as PHP (or indeed "General Web") coders?
Answer: Currently have my own business, and hope to be a fully employed, but since I'm still in school I can't devote my time 100%.
2) To those of you who take contract work, do you ever find yourself in a "between contracts" phase? If so, how long do these phases usually last? Also, what's the average length of a contract?
Answer: My business basically runs on a contract to contract basis. There are times when its slow, but there are also times when I'm not actively "looking" for work. Part of being successful is being able to generate your own business. However, most of my sites usually generate more work (if not immedately) but later down the road.
3) What's the job market like at the moment for PHP/Web programmers? Up/down? Easy to find new work?
Answer: Since I also do graphic design I'm not 100% sure. As far as I know, I can always find work when need it and when I'm looking for it.
4) How much experience have you got with PHP? What's the minimum experience you feel is necessary before a potential employer takes you seriously?
Answer: I've been programing since I was 15. Basically, if you have the skills and the talent I'm not sure how long you been doing it is necessary. If you can do the job and you can do the job well, it really makes no difference.
5) Is it a good idea to do small free projects to build a portfolio?
Answer: I'd say to an extent yes, it helps spread the word about who you are. However, if you do larger projects for free you're just loosing money out of your own pocket. The one exception I might make to this is if you're looking for "practice" in something you're not familiar with. Its better to screw something up when you're volunteering your services then when you're getting paid to do it.
6) How much do you use other skills during your work (management, marketing, sales etc.)
Answer: I use more of my marketing skills then most else, but thats mainly due to having my own business. ie one person to do it all, I have to use all the skills I have.
7) Do you specialise in a particular business area?
Answer: I specialize in online database driven games for kids.
Do you work to a pre-written spec, or do you contribute actively to the specification from the conception to the end?
Answer: Can't answer you well here. As I am my own boss, what I say/think/do/feel goes.
9) What sort of money is in it?
Answer: Just doing work on the side, as a part time basic between school, my programing and my games generates around 10-15k a year. Not bad for something that I tend to do in my spare time. If I was working for a company then I'd have a steady salary/income.
10) Currently PHP is a hobby, which means I do it for pleasure. Do you think that doing it full time would turn it into a bloody nightmare, like my current work is?
Answer: There are upsides and downsides to working in PHP all the time, however if its something you like to do then you won't find it a complete nightmare. Thats like saying if you love football but you work as a referee at a game then you'll no longer like football. There will of course be some things you don't like doing in the job, but if its generally something you like to do, then making a profession out of it seems like a good idea to me
Answer: Currently have my own business, and hope to be a fully employed, but since I'm still in school I can't devote my time 100%.
2) To those of you who take contract work, do you ever find yourself in a "between contracts" phase? If so, how long do these phases usually last? Also, what's the average length of a contract?
Answer: My business basically runs on a contract to contract basis. There are times when its slow, but there are also times when I'm not actively "looking" for work. Part of being successful is being able to generate your own business. However, most of my sites usually generate more work (if not immedately) but later down the road.
3) What's the job market like at the moment for PHP/Web programmers? Up/down? Easy to find new work?
Answer: Since I also do graphic design I'm not 100% sure. As far as I know, I can always find work when need it and when I'm looking for it.
4) How much experience have you got with PHP? What's the minimum experience you feel is necessary before a potential employer takes you seriously?
Answer: I've been programing since I was 15. Basically, if you have the skills and the talent I'm not sure how long you been doing it is necessary. If you can do the job and you can do the job well, it really makes no difference.
5) Is it a good idea to do small free projects to build a portfolio?
Answer: I'd say to an extent yes, it helps spread the word about who you are. However, if you do larger projects for free you're just loosing money out of your own pocket. The one exception I might make to this is if you're looking for "practice" in something you're not familiar with. Its better to screw something up when you're volunteering your services then when you're getting paid to do it.
6) How much do you use other skills during your work (management, marketing, sales etc.)
Answer: I use more of my marketing skills then most else, but thats mainly due to having my own business. ie one person to do it all, I have to use all the skills I have.
7) Do you specialise in a particular business area?
Answer: I specialize in online database driven games for kids.
Answer: Can't answer you well here. As I am my own boss, what I say/think/do/feel goes.
9) What sort of money is in it?
Answer: Just doing work on the side, as a part time basic between school, my programing and my games generates around 10-15k a year. Not bad for something that I tend to do in my spare time. If I was working for a company then I'd have a steady salary/income.
10) Currently PHP is a hobby, which means I do it for pleasure. Do you think that doing it full time would turn it into a bloody nightmare, like my current work is?
Answer: There are upsides and downsides to working in PHP all the time, however if its something you like to do then you won't find it a complete nightmare. Thats like saying if you love football but you work as a referee at a game then you'll no longer like football. There will of course be some things you don't like doing in the job, but if its generally something you like to do, then making a profession out of it seems like a good idea to me
- shiznatix
- DevNet Master
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i am full time right now. its aite. i wouldn't be like 'kids, one day you too can be a PHP programmer!' kinda deal but its a living. I started doing it as a hobby and it grew from there.
i wont answer all your questions but ill do a general answering:
job market: it depends on where you live. location is everything. in pittsburgh i had nothing, in estonia i have turned down more job offers than i have had jobs in my life. gotta be where the work is for a full time job.
expierence is great because it shows you have made stuff that is out there on the web today. but this also depends on the company. some will teach you php from scratch and all that happy stuff so it all depends. the better you are the more money you get, its quite simple.
portfolios r good
i use other skills every day. i have to know more and more linux stuff every day, by the time i quit this job ill be a linux guru but i just learn a bit more about it every day. depends on the company. its a good idea to be able to think about a company from the companies persective with marketing, sales, stuff like that.
i specialize in what makes me money
i contribute activley to the specs which any good programmer should do
will you hate it if you do it for a living? depends on the company. i hated my first real php job but my current one isnt bad. i imagine my next will be better and so on and so forth.
i wont answer all your questions but ill do a general answering:
job market: it depends on where you live. location is everything. in pittsburgh i had nothing, in estonia i have turned down more job offers than i have had jobs in my life. gotta be where the work is for a full time job.
expierence is great because it shows you have made stuff that is out there on the web today. but this also depends on the company. some will teach you php from scratch and all that happy stuff so it all depends. the better you are the more money you get, its quite simple.
portfolios r good
i use other skills every day. i have to know more and more linux stuff every day, by the time i quit this job ill be a linux guru but i just learn a bit more about it every day. depends on the company. its a good idea to be able to think about a company from the companies persective with marketing, sales, stuff like that.
i specialize in what makes me money
i contribute activley to the specs which any good programmer should do
will you hate it if you do it for a living? depends on the company. i hated my first real php job but my current one isnt bad. i imagine my next will be better and so on and so forth.
- feyd
- Neighborhood Spidermoddy
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Re: Some general questions about working as a PHP coder
As some may know, I'm currently retired from doing most "work" in PHP and the web business in general. I pick up contracts now and then, but I'm not really interesting in working on any projects buy my own (open source) ones from here on.GM wrote:1) How many of you are full-time employed as PHP (or indeed "General Web") coders?
Lengths of down time and up time vary wildly. At times I was only down for a few hours, and at other times I'll be out of contract for weeks (although more rare.) I'd guess the typical down time would be a few days. It really can depend on your pricing, how clients find you, whether it's repeat business or new business, etc.GM wrote:2) To those of you who take contract work, do you ever find yourself in a "between contracts" phase? If so, how long do these phases usually last? Also, what's the average length of a contract?
Skilled programmers can find work almost anywhere, the problem is pricing yourself right for the area you're in and the area(s) you will service.GM wrote:3) What's the job market like at the moment for PHP/Web programmers? Up/down? Easy to find new work?
As some may know, I've only been working in PHP for two years. I've got a lot more experience than many though for my two years. I was also working in the web and other computer related industries for many years prior to that. The minimum experience level an employer should take seriously should not be derived by the time spent, but the quality and turn around time the programmer provides. If they know what they're doing, they have more experience in that particular thing, simple enough. It really comes down to what the employer is looking for to know how much experience is needed for it. That's why I like testing potential hires.GM wrote:4) How much experience have you got with PHP? What's the minimum experience you feel is necessary before a potential employer takes you seriously?
You have to start somewhere. Few companies will trust a large project to someone green unless they are getting a substantial discount and feel they will get their product on time.GM wrote:5) Is it a good idea to do small free projects to build a portfolio?
Whatever the client pays for, they get those services. If they want more services, they will have to bump my pay accordingly.GM wrote:6) How much do you use other skills during your work (management, marketing, sales etc.)
I've done pretty much everything in many of the languages out there, so I'm good to go in a lot of things.GM wrote:7) Do you specialise in a particular business area?
That would depend entirely on when the client brings me in and what they are paying me for. I have done both.GM wrote:8) Do you work to a pre-written spec, or do you contribute actively to the specification from the conception to the end?
The kind of money the government likes to tax.GM wrote:9) What sort of money is in it?
It can get nightmarish, but overall the projects end better than many other types of projects I've worked on.GM wrote:10) Currently PHP is a hobby, which means I do it for pleasure. Do you think that doing it full time would turn it into a bloody nightmare, like my current work is?
Uh, thanks for your permission. :PGM wrote:Note to the moderators - I don't think that I've put this in the wrong place, but if you think differently, feel free to move it.
- Chris Corbyn
- Breakbeat Nuttzer
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- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Some general questions about working as a PHP coder
1) I'm a full-time PHP developer... I'm part of a small team working on a large project with limited funding.
2) I dabbled in freelance before going full-time salaried.... The main issue was the insecurity of it.
3) This really depends on location. In the UK finding work is easy(ish). But finding work above "junior" level pay is a little trickier in my experience from looking for jobs last year.
4) Look at my joined date.... that's when I worte my first line of code ever! I've been doing my job now for 10 months, but I'm a fast learner and got extremely hooked very quickly.
5) Of course... most employers want to see past work before they'll offer you a position.
6) I haven't used any of my academic skills in my work being from a chemistry background academically. I've used a little mathematics though. The people-skills I've had from previous jobs have been a big help when dealing with clients though.
7) Not really... my job is specific, being a project (see signature) but I also code in my spare time asa hobby and cover a wide base.... this is why I love coding... plenty of variation and always learning.
Oh yes... our team is small and we all basically are running business ourselves and thus we all provide our own ideas/input.
9) Haha good question. Well.. I'm on £22,000 GBP in my first PHP job but I'm hoping for a rise to £30K soon (same position).
10) You're in the same boat I was.... I've not once in the 10 months I've worked professionally, woke up and thought I don't want to go to work... granted, the tasks that drag-on can get irritating
2) I dabbled in freelance before going full-time salaried.... The main issue was the insecurity of it.
3) This really depends on location. In the UK finding work is easy(ish). But finding work above "junior" level pay is a little trickier in my experience from looking for jobs last year.
4) Look at my joined date.... that's when I worte my first line of code ever! I've been doing my job now for 10 months, but I'm a fast learner and got extremely hooked very quickly.
5) Of course... most employers want to see past work before they'll offer you a position.
6) I haven't used any of my academic skills in my work being from a chemistry background academically. I've used a little mathematics though. The people-skills I've had from previous jobs have been a big help when dealing with clients though.
7) Not really... my job is specific, being a project (see signature) but I also code in my spare time asa hobby and cover a wide base.... this is why I love coding... plenty of variation and always learning.
9) Haha good question. Well.. I'm on £22,000 GBP in my first PHP job but I'm hoping for a rise to £30K soon (same position).
10) You're in the same boat I was.... I've not once in the 10 months I've worked professionally, woke up and thought I don't want to go to work... granted, the tasks that drag-on can get irritating
- John Cartwright
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95% of my clients are in other countries, I don't think your location is that important.shiznatix wrote:job market: it depends on where you live. location is everything. in pittsburgh i had nothing, in estonia i have turned down more job offers than i have had jobs in my life. gotta be where the work is for a full time job.
There's a very poor indication. Recruitment agencies put adverts on websites like that in order to get people's CVs. Lots of the jobs don't actually exist.alvinphp wrote:If you want to know if there are PHP jobs for you in your area go to tech job listing site and see who is looking for PHP programmers.
Very, very true!onion2k wrote:There's a very poor indication. Recruitment agencies put adverts on websites like that in order to get people's CVs. Lots of the jobs don't actually exist.alvinphp wrote:If you want to know if there are PHP jobs for you in your area go to tech job listing site and see who is looking for PHP programmers.
I just started as a full time position, before that I was working for three years as a contractor/self employed. I love getting a regular paycheck. Even waiting for feedback from a client, I am still getting paid. My biggest problem with contracting was that I was a "nice guy" and I'd cut my rates for every little sob story. If you are going to contract, you need to be good at marketing AND collections just as much as developing code.1) How many of you are full-time employed as PHP (or indeed "General Web") coders?
I think as a contractor you can take on smaller jobs that help to fill the gaps. Learn to multi-task but don't over extend yourself and get into trouble. The other nice thing about the time between contracts was that you could take time to "play" with an idea that you had and not worry about someone thingking you are wasting time. An exmployer wasnt to see code spewing forth for every second of time that he is paying your for.2) To those of you who take contract work, do you ever find yourself in a "between contracts" phase? If so, how long do these phases usually last? Also, what's the average length of a contract?
I think that it does depend on your area of you are thinking that this job is like a regular job. I currently work for a company in LA and by telecommuting I show up on time without having to fight up my head over the traffic. It's nice.3) What's the job market like at the moment for PHP/Web programmers? Up/down? Easy to find new work?
I have been using PHP since v 3.0.14, so about 6 years. The first couple were for a hobby, and because I was getting tired of mod_perl. I did one year of writing small helper apps at my job as a sys admin to help myself out - such as a trouble ticket system. The last 3 years I have worked for myself and started on the path to OOP. I think that most serious employers now care more about your style of work rather than your mad skillz. The reason being that if you really sit back and think about it, programming web applications is pretty easy. All we really do is push data back and forth and maybe apply some filtering/modification to it on the way by. The hard part is knowing what your domain is, and how to get the client to tell you exactly what they need. I know that there are a lot of places that still use some of the worst code imaginable and don't want to fix it. The best way they can manage things is by making sure your work is well documented and that you can work with a versioning system such as CVS/Subversion. If you want to test out the theory, the next time you are in an interview ask them "Would I be better off getting the Zend Certification?" - I have never heard that it would make any difference.4) How much experience have you got with PHP? What's the minimum experience you feel is necessary before a potential employer takes you seriously?
The only way to become a good anything is to practice. Try your best to make the solution the best you can do. Revisit the project again in 6 months. Being on this forum puts you on the fast track, be a sponge.5) Is it a good idea to do small free projects to build a portfolio?
If you are working for yourself then marketing and managing are equal with programming.6) How much do you use other skills during your work (management, marketing, sales etc.)
It is beneficial to really delve into one particular area so that you can claim a higher degree of knowledge in it. Try something that is fairly complicated such as Accounting. Get an accounting text book and start trying to implement things that they talk about in the book. Keep your eye open for opportunities outside of that area though and use them to expand your knowledge. If you find yourself asking "I wonder how that works?", find out, and then code something about it.7) Do you specialise in a particular business area?
It always depends on the project. As a contractor I would say that you are not going to be as involved in the planning stages because you are transient. If you have key knowledge though, they will pull you into the team for your input.Do you work to a pre-written spec, or do you contribute actively to the specification from the conception to the end?
Okay, first off you are not Rasmus. I am quite sure he gets plenty of money to play with YUI but you are NOT him. Neither am I, until the plastic surgery happens at any rate. There are people in Poland making $9/hour to code in Java. There are people I know that are getting paid >$50/hour to lead a team of programmers and not write a line of code at all. Try to find the best place to work were you can learn the most and then look to climb the ladder.9) What sort of money is in it?
Work sucks.10) Currently PHP is a hobby, which means I do it for pleasure. Do you think that doing it full time would turn it into a bloody nightmare, like my current work is?
Later,
Matthew Purdon
- RobertGonzalez
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Re: Some general questions about working as a PHP coder
I know this will be long, but I thought it would a little more useful to answer all of the questions that I could.
Not me. I am employed full-time as something else. My current job does allow me to use my skills in that many of the ideas I have (for taking work to the web) have been implemented. I am also my department's resident geek, so I fill that role, too.GM wrote:1) How many of you are full-time employed as PHP (or indeed "General Web") coders?
Funny thing is, I take contract work. But being a regularly employed worker allows me to not worry so much about the lapses in contract times. So my answer would be a little skewed, although I would say that the longest I have gone without a contract is about six months. Right now I am coding for 8 clients. I also code for myself in the hope that one day I will be able to sell some of my web apps.GM wrote:2) To those of you who take contract work, do you ever find yourself in a "between contracts" phase? If so, how long do these phases usually last? Also, what's the average length of a contract?
In Silicon Valley, it is actually pretty hot if you are well rounded. What I mean by that is if you are a PHP guru, as well as a Perl guru, Python guru, MySQL, PostgreSQL, MSSQL, DB2, Linux, Apache, general PC and overall network guru as well. The job market for straight PHP developers in next to nothing out here right now.GM wrote:3) What's the job market like at the moment for PHP/Web programmers? Up/down? Easy to find new work?
I started developing about a month before my PHPDN join date (which I think is 09-Sep-2003). I picked up on it pretty quickly, but I continue to learn more everyday. There is a lot of knowledge floating around this community and it has been a valuable asset to me. As for employers, most are looking for 5 years of solid development experience including work on a full service application, shopping cart development or some other specific task that PHP developers do. They also seem to want to see your portfolio so they can see a real live implementation of your work.GM wrote:4) How much experience have you got with PHP? What's the minimum experience you feel is necessary before a potential employer takes you seriously?
This depends entirely on your need for cash. Would I do a free project, sure. I am working on one right now that is mostly free (the hosting is what I charge for, the development is free). But in my case my client is willing to cover the cost of a dedicated server so I can place a network of site on it. They have also allowed me to host other clients on this server, so I can charge the other clients for hosting and profit that way. However, most of my projects are paid projects because I have a family and create expenses. Managing a family of seven in Northern California on one person's income is not an easy thing to do.GM wrote:5) Is it a good idea to do small free projects to build a portfolio?
Quite a bit. Problem solving, cost analysis, project timeline forecasting, report management, etc... There are a lot of things that I use from my current job and from my experience during development.GM wrote:6) How much do you use other skills during your work (management, marketing, sales etc.)
What the client wants.GM wrote:7) Do you specialise in a particular business area?
Whatever the client wants.GM wrote:Do you work to a pre-written spec, or do you contribute actively to the specification from the conception to the end?
What kind of a salesperson are you? Sometimes there is good money in PHP development. But mostly there is mediocre money at best. And a lot of jobs are temp type jobs that, even if they pay well, will leave unemployed soon thereafter.GM wrote:9) What sort of money is in it?
There are time when PHP development gets on my nerves. Every developer goes through that. Look at Feyd. He is still relatively young and he is pretty much retired from professional, full-time, employed development (except for his own projects, but I did say full-time, employed). Can it be a drain? Sure. But it can also be as fun as you allow it to be for you.GM wrote:10) Currently PHP is a hobby, which means I do it for pleasure. Do you think that doing it full time would turn it into a bloody nightmare, like my current work is?
- shiznatix
- DevNet Master
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I ment for like a actual, in office kinda job. If you freelance you can be anywhere but if you want a job that you have to get up and goto work every day and you know that you will always have work to do then the location is important (unless you make your own company).Jcart wrote:95% of my clients are in other countries, I don't think your location is that important.shiznatix wrote:job market: it depends on where you live. location is everything. in pittsburgh i had nothing, in estonia i have turned down more job offers than i have had jobs in my life. gotta be where the work is for a full time job.
Re: Some general questions about working as a PHP coder
Isn't that the truth!! We just need to come up with a way to "glitch" the system into thinking we've already paid our taxes...feyd wrote:The kind of money the government likes to tax.GM wrote:9) What sort of money is in it?