Page 1 of 2

What will you do/say in such situation

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:37 pm
by n00b Saibot
Today, I had a heated debate with my client on topic what exactly is a programmer's job.

Let's get into details. I have been developing for this UK-based client for past 8 months or so. Over the time we developed a mutual friendship of sorts so that we were very informal. Many a times, when he would require a suggestion in fields that were beyond the scope of a programmer(mostly related to servers etc. sometimes general matters), he would ask me. I admitted to have knowledge on such topics. So from time to time, he took my advice on various matters.

About a month ago, he had to shift his website to a newly bought dedicated server. He told me to do it for him thru Web Host Manager. I admit to never have used Web Host Manager before nor having done any of the DNS etc. stuff. I had a general knowledge abt it that how things work and thatsit. So I thought OK where will he go finding/hiring a tech guy, I'll do it. I have quick grasp and can get over anything pretty fast. So I setup his server and everything was ok. Then day before yesterday he told me he had sold a domain (let's say xyz.co.uk) to another person (He had 7-8 sites on that server). When I setup the server, I named it according to xyz domain (since that was first domain to be setup), nameservers and all. After he sold that domain, the new guy changed the nameservers' ip to his server. So because of that my client's sites stopped working, since they were all using those name servers. Now he comes and tells me why I did such a setup and that this `DISASTER` was causing him many ££££'s and I should have thought about it before hand. He said — "you are the guy advising me on these issues. you SHOULD KNOW. do NOT advise me in future if you are not sure". I was shocked... how can he say like that.. in the view of all events, I had nothing to do with it. Also I did it pure outta friendship and it hadn't to do anything remotely with my job. I remind him that it wasn't my job dear and i did it purely because of our friendly terms. and the dunghead tells me — "ITS YOUR JOB. To me, A Programmer covers all these things - you cannot hire a 'domain guy'. To me this is business. anything work related is - business. and must not be treated otherwise".

I told him to smurf off for now. Spoiled my mood. I really am hot now and AC doesn't help either...

What would you guys have done in such a situation?

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:05 pm
by nickvd
He's right in that you can't hire a "domain guy", however you can hire a "network guy", which is not the same as a programmer...

Without knowing more details as to contracts/agreements/etc, I would say that you're in the right on this one. It's like asking a pilot to help fix the airplane, then blaming him for messing something up, he's a pilot not a mechanic... Cut all ties with him, if possible, he's not worth your time.

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:07 pm
by Chris Corbyn
Did he pay you to do the work? You should still have access to the server over an IP address to be able to change things. Changing the domain name merely changes the way you access the server.

If he didn't tell you about the name being sold before hand I don't see how you feasibly could "think about it before hand".

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
by n00b Saibot
nickvd wrote:Without knowing more details as to contracts/agreements/etc
contract says I work fulltime for him as a `programmer`.
d11wtq wrote:Did he pay you to do the work?
apart from my monthly salary, no.
d11wtq wrote:You should still have access to the server over an IP address to be able to change things.
that I did and told him to change the domain to point to new nameservers that I setup.

Still, his behavior and his way of looking at it... :evil:

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:45 pm
by Weirdan
"To me this is business. anything work related is - business. and must not be treated otherwise".
Running a web-site is business. He's a businessman, right? So obviously he ought to program his site himself and manage his domains by himself as well. To me, a businessman covers all these things - you cannot hire a 'programming guy'.

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:58 pm
by n00b Saibot
Weirdan wrote:
"To me this is business. anything work related is - business. and must not be treated otherwise".
Running a web-site is business. He's a businessman, right? So obviously he ought to program his site himself and manage his domains by himself as well. To me, a businessman covers all these things - you cannot hire a 'programming guy'.
I need to contact you urgently :P


PS: and I'm sorry for not picking right forum for this. you see I am so affected that I posted PHP in JS forum :lol: ask feyd...

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:04 pm
by alex.barylski
Ouch...

I hear you...having worked as a freelance developer for the frugal businessman wanting a deal, they love to captialize on jack of all trades type people.

I personally enjoyed the constantly changing challenges, but at the same time it annoyed me...

As a freelancer, you want to do everything, because you know there are others out there just like you who claim to know everything and if someone new enters your relationship and proves he can fix this domain issue and later says he programs as well...your partnership starts to dwindle, you loose your contract to this other 'know it all' and now your out of work...

It's a tough call...and I understand where your coming from, but at the same time...this guy is running a business and when your business isn't making you money...your probably going to get a little cheesed...not much you can do about it now...but leaving him high and dry...thats harsh and will likely cost you...

Cheers :)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:46 pm
by n00b Saibot
Welcome to my world Hockey :)
Hockey wrote:having worked as a freelance developer for the frugal businessman wanting a deal, they love to captialize on jack of all trades type people.
I see now that you say this...
Hockey wrote:As a freelancer, you want to do everything, because you know there are others out there just like you who claim to know everything and if someone new enters your relationship and proves he can fix this domain issue and later says he programs as well...your partnership starts to dwindle, you loose your contract to this other 'know it all' and now your out of work...
I'm not a freelancer :) and I have/had no intention to be a know-it-all but I love to learn stuff & all so yeah may be I am a know-it-all :P I don't fear of loosing contracts in such a way. Clients come & go... with my experience & skill I just get better than previous ones. I'm all for a healthy relationship... would you believe I am working for an old client at 1/20th the rates I am charging now.
Hockey wrote:It's a tough call...and I understand where your coming from, but at the same time...this guy is running a business and when your business isn't making you money...your probably going to get a little cheesed...not much you can do about it now...but leaving him high and dry...thats harsh and will likely cost you...
I seriously don't care about him now. I have many much better paying clients than him... If it was money I was after, I would have bye-bye'd him next month.

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:33 am
by Ree
I admit to never have used Web Host Manager before nor having done any of the DNS etc. stuff.
Did you tell him that? If not, he naturally may have thought you do know all the stuff you are going to do - in that case he's right for being mad. Following the analogy of the pilot and the airplane, if the pilot said "I do know how to fix the plane and I will surely do it well" and later on it turned out he didn't know crap about what he had done - that's the pilot's fault.

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:49 am
by n00b Saibot
Ree wrote:
I admit to never have used Web Host Manager before nor having done any of the DNS etc. stuff.
Did you tell him that? If not, he naturally may have thought you do know all the stuff you are going to do - in that case he's right for being mad. Following the analogy of the pilot and the airplane, if the pilot said "I do know how to fix the plane and I will surely do it well" and later on it turned out he didn't know crap about what he had done - that's the pilot's fault.
I: But I've never setup a server before.
He: You can, I know it is in your genes buddy. If in doubt check the online manuals.
and well as you can see, it's entirely not my fault in this case. I'm not responsible for his actions. got it? :)

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:17 am
by Luke
Sounds like a bonified, genuine <span style='color:blue' title='I&#39;m naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> to me.

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:21 am
by n00b Saibot
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:Sounds like a bonified, genuine <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> to me.
whtever :roll:

but hey its passé. now I just rock! 8)

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:36 am
by RobertGonzalez
If you are under contract to perform a certain task then you are held to that task. If you are asked to do something outside the scope of that task, and you made it clear that you were not too sure what you were doing and he still chose to have you do it, shame on him.

Before I went full time as a developer I thought it was my job (as a developer) to handle all aspects of a clients needs. When I got into my development job, I realized that there are specific people that do specific things as it relates to a network. Right now my title is Web Developer. I work with a Database Admin, a Server Admin and a Network Systems Admin. Fancy that? When a DNS question comes, we go to the Network Systems guy. When we need a server made, we go to the Server Admin. As I develop for the projects we are doing, I meet with the DBA who is putting together the data interfaces for us. I had no idea that there were people that did JUST those things. And if you weren't specifically contracted to do those things, then it seems a bit harsh for him to react that way toward you.

On a side note, when I set up my Dedicated Server, I bought a domain name specifically for it. It just seemed right at the time. Why did he not think to do this?

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:41 am
by n00b Saibot
Everah wrote:On a side note, when I set up my Dedicated Server, I bought a domain name specifically for it. It just seemed right at the time. Why did he not think to do this?
read again, he sold the first domain, which btw also had nameservers set to its name since it was the first site to be setup. all the other sites just used that nameserver.

Hope that makes it clear :)

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:47 am
by RobertGonzalez
No, I got that much. As an example, I own everah.com. That is the face of my business. But when I set up my dedicated server, I used everahhosting.com. If I ever sold everah.com, I could still use everahhosting.com as my dedicated servers DNS. In fact, all hosted clients are on the everahhosting.com DNS.

In all reality, it doesn't matter. Things went to hell in a handbasket, he took it out on you and he shouldn't have. Past demonstrations of his lack of foresight are completely irrelevant, as they change nothing. I hope this sorts itself out for you. But if you have other clients, all should be well.