Imagine doing the following in 25,000 lines of custom code from your own fingertips, and then dropping in PunBB, Google Site Search, Google Charts API, jQuery, TinyMCE, and PayPal components beyond that. Then imagine only charging $5K (USA price) for it. (BTW, my average site is about 25K - 30K in lines of custom code.)
Here's what they got:
Attractive design - Paypal integration - Sandbox product catalog mode - Product catalog - Multiple currency support - Article, guide, and blog publishing system - RSS feed on most recent stuff - Google Site Search - Poll gadget with Google Charts API - Security controls - SEO style links - Page compression - Google PR boosting tricks - Advertising section - Sweet admin system like no one has ever made before, full of AJAX and jQuery fancy stuff - PunBB forum integration with a rich editor control on posts - Most recent articles gadget - Most recent guides gadget - Paginated pages in admin and front-end - Most recent forum posts gadget - Login/Register/Logout + PMs from any non-forum page on the site - Admin editable secondary pages (FAQ, Policies, About Us, etc.) - Custom-built, mini-CMS with a TinyMCE rich editor control - Contact form with captcha and fancy AJAX/jQuery processing of required fields and required data in those fields - Bug fixes
I just did that and completed it in sixty 90 - 100 hour work weeks, juked up on Peruvian coffee. (I can't share the link because of NDA, however.)
The product catalog in itself should have cost $5K USD, but then adding in a fancy, custom-made mini-CMS -- that was another $5K right there. And then everything else in the site would have been $5K. So I should have charged like $15K USD.
So why so cheap? These reasons:
- April was a dry month. I guess taxes ate up my clients? So by May, I had to lower my rates. That's when my client found me. I raised my rates back to normal in June and bounced back, but it was with other clients.
- I was ready in May, but my client wasn't ready exactly. I couldn't wait on them, so I had to get work. That work turned into massive work, which belabored my ability to get back to this client. The client was flexible, surprisingly, and said they wanted to keep me even though I had to move them into backburner mode until my next free moment.
- I was really hoping to use a bunch of drop-in components and knock this out super fast. But on the forum system, I made the wrong choice and chose phpBB, which I grew to hate, and eventually had to switch to PunBB, which I like a great deal. Next, all CMS products wanted to be like the end-all for the whole site, not a gadget to drop into the site, which was pretty frustrating. So, I wrote my own. As for the product catalog, I didn't have the time to fight with F/OSS learning curves and products, and to live with their quirks, so I wrote my own and integrated it with PayPal's free shopping cart feature.
- There's cash and then there's cache. I wanted to have some of these custom components to use with this client on future projects, and to conceptually know how to build similar components for other clients. So, I chalked it up to reuse and experience.
- I can't complain much about a client that sticks with me in backburner mode while I work other more lucrative clients for a couple months. So we both got a deal, actually -- not just them.
The end result?
- The client is showering me with praise and recommending me to others. One new client even contacted me from that reference and wants me to fit them into my schedule.
- We've got reusable stuff here for future projects.
- Experience!
- The client will pay me a slight bit more on the next contract, and can trust me now.
- The components I built -- do you realize how many sites use most of those things? That's a lot of site varieties.
- I might not have to work so hard on my next project.
- Better time estimates on future projects.
Talk About Underbid
Moderator: General Moderators
Re: Talk About Underbid
$5k/month for an individual is a pretty good salary...
Re: Talk About Underbid
Congratulations. Sounds like you came out smelling like a rose, despite the low price on that one job. That's a good story for developers who are struggling with the age-old question of how to price their work. I would have to say that there are risks in applying that to other situations, though. You clearly appraised all the circumstances and made a wise decision. With a different client, it might have not worked out so well. But I basically believe in the principle of collaborating with your clients in creating a win-win situation, and it seems you did just that. Good for you!
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jack_indigo
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Re: Talk About Underbid
Not exactly, actually. I did some math on the project since that last post. I was like working 11 hour days for 60% of the project time when I reviewed that work log. That came to a total of 340 hours. So basically I was working at $14.70 per hour. Yeah, not a great salary there. Also, when one is self-employed, you do have a lot of tax deductions, but you still pay a good bit in taxes of like, well, let's say just 30%. So, $3500 of it is only what I get to take home. So then the per hour rate on that would feel like $10.29 per hour.onion2k wrote:$5k/month for an individual is a pretty good salary...
However, even at a low ball rate of $35/hr USD, we're looking at a project that probably should have cost $11,900 USD.
Califdon is right, though. I chalk this up to getting a lot of other things besides cash out of the deal. I can't always extend this kind of happiness on everyone's project plans, but I was able to do it to gain the experience I needed on a few things.
As for comfort level, I'm a family man with two kids, one about to enter college next year. I built a McMansion during the booming dot com years. (However, unlike most McMansions, I built mine very efficiently because I was the general contractor and also participated a good bit in building it, and then refinanced the house twice to a very low mortgage rate.) Like many Americans, I haven't made the wisest credit decisions in the past few years and have only been trying to control that problem in the last 3 years. So, for me at least, $3500 is comfortable if I don't worry about the tax man in a given month, but $5000 is comfortable if I have to worry about the tax man too.
I wish I could run leaner than that, but unfortunately I can't. I've heard of guys in the USA selling all they have, renting some cheap, beat-up trailer in the USA for part of the year, and then spending the rest of their year (most of their year) in a place like Costa Rica or Panama as a visitor, freelancing work off a laptop, living in a luxury condo as if they were a king or queen, complete with an occasional maid or cook service. And that's my competition right there.
- John Cartwright
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Re: Talk About Underbid
Sounds vaguely familiarI've heard of guys in the USA selling all they have, renting some cheap, beat-up trailer in the USA for part of the year, and then spending the rest of their year (most of their year) in a place like Costa Rica or Panama as a visitor, freelancing work off a laptop, living in a luxury condo as if they were a king or queen, complete with an occasional maid or cook service. And that's my competition right there.
Seriously though, I've worked with people as intelligent as I am (or so I believe) that work for about $20 a day from various countries across Asia. A lot of companies, including the one I belong to, opt for developers in countries with fraction of the last for living expenses for obvious financial reasons. It's up to you to convince your clients that your level of service is worth the higher costs, and it seems you've been doing an excellent job doing that. Maybe it's just a matter of finding the right clients..