Page 2 of 7
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:49 am
by Benjamin
What part of "PHP does not support multi threading" do you not understand?
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:49 am
by s.dot
I think a lot of people are mistaking multi-requests for multi-threading.
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:01 am
by CoderGoblin
ASDen wrote:
well first let me ask you a question Do you use Js in YOUR sites?please don't say NO as this is - bearly - not an option and please guys shift from this point what would you have said if i used VBScript
one other thing i didn't like the term *Google toys* there aren't toys and if they are you can't imagine how big is the number of players (I'm sure you don't consider their search engine a toy otherwise i wouldn't have answered you as I'm sure then you play with US)
There is a lot of difference between things which require javascript and things which are enhanced by javascript. Sure there is a big push for flashy javascript utilities. Things like yahoo and yahoo mail now also have interfaces based in javascript which I tried and immediately went back to the old versions. I have also been to a couple of companies where javascript is disabled. Hacking browsers to use javascript is a disciplinary offence, so to say that using no javascript is clearly not an option is wrong. Statistics bear this out... in one particular study out of 884000 web sites only 59% used javascript (August 1 2007). OK this survey could include simple home pages, blogs etc but none the less 60%....
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:02 am
by Chris Corbyn
Why JavaScript? You could keep this completely contained on the server by using fsockopen() to invoke more HTTP processes.
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:54 pm
by Begby
You might want to begin by properly indenting your code so its readable, use some doc blocks, then take all of that javascript out of the big echo and have it just show up outside of php tags or ideally in a .js file that is included in the <head>
Next you might want to put in some comments; even with the documentation going on I have no idea what is going on, maybe I am too much of a newb. Perhaps recreate your .jpg diagram in UML as it just doesn't work as an incomprhensible image made in mspaint.
If you are serious about this its going to have to work in IE, why would anyone want to use multithreading, I mean multi-requests, if it worked in everything but IE. That is just dumb.
If you do the above I think people might take you more seriously.
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:33 pm
by ASDen
To
astions:-
What part of "PHP does not support multi threading" do you not understand?
and what part of "Yes in a straight forward manner" do you not understand? we aren't utilizing a fake support of php to Multi-Threading but rather the real support of the web server to Multi-Threading .
To
scottayy
I think a lot of people are mistaking multi-requests for multi-threading.
and i think that a lot of people rush to echo repeated comments before reading the whole thread
To
CoderGoblin
The results you provided are quite interesting but there are 3 questions:-
1. how much of the rest of the 41% use VBScript ?
2. and how much of them use PHP ?
3. last how much of them require interactivity in the first place and render services ?
name me a leading website that is not using Js
what is the percent of internet users that are preventing Js?
by the way you have a thread that is side by side to this i didn't recognize there that you hate or don't depend upon Js .
Thanks for your concern
To
d11wtq:-(Welcome back

)
Why JavaScript? You could keep this completely contained on the server by using fsockopen() to invoke more HTTP processes.
Well.... i have 2 main reasons for this :-
1. one of the things i kept in mind while developing this class is that it can be easily hosted in any Free php webhosting with no problems and using php sockets is banned in a number of them
2. using php sockets will uncover many vulnerabilities as i would have to use GET calls passing arguments in address which is - as you all know - dangerous
To
Begby
First many thanks to this well tided critiques:-
1. in the first place i thought the echo issue and the separate php file would make it cleaner

. But i think you are right about the separate Js file
2. there is already comments in the class but yet they are very small
3. The IE issue was just a Joke for you testers

but wasn't by any way intended in final release(by the way it works with IE7 but not IE5&6)
at last i promise to clean the code mess

you pointed to
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:14 pm
by CoderGoblin
ASDen wrote:
The results you provided are quite interesting but there are 3 questions:-
1. how much of the rest of the 41% use VBScript ?
2. and how much of them use PHP ?
3. last how much of them require interactivity in the first place and render services ?
name me a leading website that is not using Js
what is the percent of internet users that are preventing Js?
by the way you have a thread that is side by side to this i didn't recognize there that you hate or don't depend upon Js .
To answer:
1. No idea but not really at issue here..
2. Explain a method to determine if php is used other than questionaire. Ok some have .php extensions but not all.
3. The web by itself requires interactivity... Links and forms are the basics. Graphical bells and whistles are nice but not essential, indeed they often confuse users and slow them down.
4. Yahoo, Amazon, Google (including Google Maps), IMDB... (Javascript generally enhances the sites, they are still usable with javascript off)
Your final comment... I don't hate javascript, indeed I find it useful. The point I made... Enhance with javascript, don't depend on it. The use of a <noscript> tag can work wonders. It often means extra clicks by users without javascript but the site still works. Read comments/techniques on things like jquery and you will hear the term 'hijacking' where pages are built without javascript, then javascript takes over to enhance the site. Read my topic about chained selects and you will see that the pages still work without javascript (ok didn't originally but the whole purpose of the topic was originally about using AJAX).
Take a guess that 6% of people don't have javascript (based on statistic on w3schools.com for 2007 not sure of accuracy). On a n online shop 6% of people not using a site could potentially be a lot of turnover. Also bear in mind if someone leaves a site because they have javascript turned off, they are unlikely to come back even if they switch javascript on afterwards.
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:37 pm
by ASDen
Hi There:-
I've Commented and indented the Code well now it's more readable and understandable (as you advised

)
you will find it well treated here
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... _id=203377
To
CoderGoblin :-
1. No idea but not really at issue here..
2. Explain a method to determine if php is used other than questionaire. Ok some have .php extensions but not all.
3. The web by itself requires interactivity... Links and forms are the basics. Graphical bells and whistles are nice but not essential, indeed they often confuse users and slow them down.
4. Yahoo, Amazon, Google (including Google Maps), IMDB... (Javascript generally enhances the sites, they are still usable with javascript off)
The idea i meant was that getting rid of Js and disabling it is a bad experience for the programmer and the user ( i disabled it in FF and life was just miserable )
you are right in the point that it's main rule was enhancing but don't you think that it's a bit notice form PAST .
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:49 pm
by ASDen
( Rest of the post Sorry but i've i problem which i can't figure which limits post size and permits openining Gmail,Hotmail )
Js is spread enough why not consider it's existence dependable .
one other thing you tell me how i can Ajax without Js ?
Take a guess that 6% of people don't have javascript
For those you can show them a nice request to enable Js and tell them thier little percent (Do You Know you are alone only 6% of users aren't enabling Js ) then tell them to sites tested you to use what ever protections they and Just give us a shot in a Computer they don't care for ...etc
Thaks and waiting for notices on Readable Version .
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:49 am
by Chris Corbyn
ASDen wrote:2. using php sockets will uncover many vulnerabilities as i would have to use GET calls passing arguments in address which is - as you all know - dangerous
Could you elaborate on this please? Why does using fsockopen() have to use GET? It's a raw socket connection just like your web browser makes when sending a HTTP request.... you can send any request type you like (GET, PUT, POST etc).
Now I have to wonder, considering fsockopen() is a part of the core PHP installation (not an extension) how many people are more likely to have JS disabled (or an incompatible browser) compared to hosts not supporting fsockopen() ?
EDIT | And what vulnerabilities do we "all know" are dangerous?

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:35 am
by CoderGoblin
ASDen wrote:
The idea i meant was that getting rid of Js and disabling it is a bad experience for the programmer and the user ( i disabled it in FF and life was just miserable )
you are right in the point that it's main rule was enhancing but don't you think that it's a bit notice form PAST .
"Life being miserable" is because you are used to having javascript. At the end of the day it is the "clients" decision. I for one would never lock people into using javascript if I could avoid it. A lot depends on how the site earns revenue and how important each person visiting a site is to the client and also how long they need to stay on the site. As previously stated, once something doesn't work they will not come back to the site. As for bad experience for the user why alienate 6% of the user base? It's not a bad experience for the programmer if you design things properly - more work potentially yes but we don't normally get paid to keep things "easy".
You can tell clients that everybody uses javascript and they are likely to believe you. If they then learn however that not everybody does you will have lost that client's trust, something which is in my view something you need to nurture and develop. If you say the site is accessable for only 94% of users they will want to know why. Explaining the reasoning and the benefits and allowing them to make the decision is the only way to go. Its all about managing client expectations, a skill which is as different as web design is to programming. Some people are good at web design, some good at programming, some handling client, others can do two or all three.
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:58 pm
by Begby
Your class and all in one files on sourceforge are 0 bytes.
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:51 pm
by ASDen
it's fixed now you will find it full try it
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:29 am
by The Phoenix
This "concept" isn't multi-threading. PHP does not support multi-threading, period.
This causes the creation of multiple processes - depending on how your php is configured. Multi-process is not the same as multi-threaded. You'd be just as well off with forking processes manually, which wouldn't require javascript, and wouldn't have issues with IE.
But it doesn't matter because its not adding threading, it just suggests to php to create a new process. I really don't think you understand the difference between threads and processes.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:10 pm
by ASDen
To
d11wtq:-
First the get issue was a wrong perception of mine Sorry .
how many people are more likely to have JS disabled (or an incompatible browser) compared to hosts not supporting fsockopen() ?
Well....... MONEY is talking here as while enabling JS is costless finding a server with fsockopen() enabled is a costy thing not free (in most cases) .
but the main point here is fsockopen has other problems ( i'm putting a big example with my class tommorrow in which this will be clear )
some last thing you can ask about get dangers in helping forums
