Framework suggestions

Ye' old general discussion board. Basically, for everything that isn't covered elsewhere. Come here to shoot the breeze, shoot your mouth off, or whatever suits your fancy.
This forum is not for asking programming related questions.

Moderator: General Moderators

User avatar
jayshields
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:11 pm
Location: Leeds/Manchester, England

Framework suggestions

Post by jayshields »

Hi guys,

I'm just coming up to a point where I'm going to have a lot of spare time (a month's worth) between finishing uni and getting a job. I've decided I should learn something new. I think I'm going to learn either a new Web programming language w/ framework (ie. Ruby on Rails or Django (Python)), or just learn a PHP framework. I've just started looking at Zend Framework now.

Although I've never used a framework before, I have a sort of framework of my own that I use for my own projects, and I have what I think to be a half-decent grasp of MVC. I reckon I could get going with a framework pretty quickly - but if I do it, I'm going to really get into it, so I don't want to make a bad choice.

Shall I just go with ZF? It seems to me that it's sort of becoming the standard MVC framework for PHP.

Any other suggestions for things to learn are welcome.

Ps. Why does the ZF QuickStart tutorial use short-tags?
User avatar
jaoudestudios
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1483
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:32 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by jaoudestudios »

ZF is much better than CakePHP, first off it is more flexible - I wasted months learning cake :(.

Yes the Quick start does use short-tags (which I think is bad practice). The Quick start should be re-named "slow start". I found it to be a pain, but we have to start somewhere.

Def learn ZF. I have been doing it for over 6 months and I wish I had started sooner. I am struggling a bit with the Models (ORM) - I am so use to writing my queries, its difficult to let go :?
User avatar
jayshields
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:11 pm
Location: Leeds/Manchester, England

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by jayshields »

jaoudestudios wrote:I am struggling a bit with the Models (ORM) - I am so use to writing my queries, its difficult to let go :?
A strong ORM is one of the main reasons I want to learn how to use an established framework. I want to be able to set up my database, generate classes from the schema, and generate a customisable administration interface from the schema. It's the mundane things like this which could be automated which I want to achieve.
User avatar
jaoudestudios
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1483
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:32 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by jaoudestudios »

I totally agree. But i could not get multiple JOINs to work, hence why I just dropped back to writing the queries (still in the Models though). But I do need to have a play and master it.

I bought a book on Zend FrameWork back in Christmas, but it SUCKS! Another book comes out end of June which looks a bit better. i just need some decent examples, but they are hard to come by. If you find any, do let me know.
User avatar
Eran
DevNet Master
Posts: 3549
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:36 am
Location: Israel, ME

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by Eran »

I totally agree. But i could not get multiple JOINs to work, hence why I just dropped back to writing the queries (still in the Models though).
You can create a Zend_Db_Table_Select object and pass it to the Zend_Db_Table finder methods for greater precision. Zend_Db_Select gives you a lot more control. I rarely have to write custom SQL (only for very custom / specific queries)

+1 for ZF recommendation
User avatar
jaoudestudios
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1483
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:32 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by jaoudestudios »

pytrin wrote:
I totally agree. But i could not get multiple JOINs to work, hence why I just dropped back to writing the queries (still in the Models though).
You can create a Zend_Db_Table_Select object and pass it to the Zend_Db_Table finder methods for greater precision. Zend_Db_Select gives you a lot more control. I rarely have to write custom SQL (only for very custom / specific queries)

+1 for ZF recommendation
Do you have some example files? I need to see an example.
User avatar
Eran
DevNet Master
Posts: 3549
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:36 am
Location: Israel, ME

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by Eran »

I use a custom model class that wraps that as well as validation and filtering so I can't give you pure ZF code. They do have it in their documentation though - http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/zen ... all.select
There are plenty of examples further down, so scroll for more.
User avatar
jaoudestudios
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1483
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:32 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by jaoudestudios »

Cheers! I will have a read tonight :)
Turv
Forum Commoner
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:56 pm

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by Turv »

jaoudestudios wrote: I bought a book on Zend FrameWork back in Christmas, but it SUCKS! Another book comes out end of June which looks a bit better. i just need some decent examples, but they are hard to come by. If you find any, do let me know.
Which book did you buy? As i have just got Zend Framework in action (Have not looked at it yet). Does anyone have any recomendations for a Zend Framework book?
User avatar
jaoudestudios
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1483
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:32 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by jaoudestudios »

The book I bought is Zend Framework in action, but it is useless. Well not useless, but a total waste of money. Fingers crossed for end of June :)
staar2
Forum Commoner
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:57 am

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by staar2 »

Could you say why it's useless, his the first author who made some really popular ZF articles like login, how to setup ZF, validation and so on. I haven't read the book cover to cover, but i can say there where some chapters which really helped me.

What i actually wanted to say is that, i think ZF has really good documentation, so you can learn there a lot. :roll:
User avatar
jaoudestudios
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1483
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:32 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by jaoudestudios »

I think Zend Framework has terrible documentation. The Quick Start is useless, hence why I call it the Slow Start.

The documentation for Zend is good, but never quite complete so I believe it is bad. When I say not complete, it does not show complete coding example - only the bit in the middle, but what goes a few lines before it??? Hence my frustation. I have yet to find good documentation on Zend Framework - I am holding my breath for the next book release.
User avatar
kaisellgren
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1675
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:52 am
Location: Lahti, Finland.

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by kaisellgren »

Zend Framework or CodeIgniter. The former is better and the ladder is easier to learn.

Btw, anyone happen to know (Has anyone tested) ZF's performance compared to others?
Last edited by kaisellgren on Tue May 26, 2009 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by alex.barylski »

I think Zend Framework has terrible documentation.
Agreed. For newbies I always suggest CodeIgnitor/CakepHP for that reason...the easier to use components come at the cost of cleaner design but RAD is sometimes more important.

The Zend_Layout has to be the most confusing of all...the router wasn't exactly as easy as it could be but I figured it out...the layout...while I get it...just seems to make everything more complicated so I continue using my own layout object(s).

I'd like to see a really detailed usage/explanation of Layout from the folks over at Zend...everything in that framework is waaay to complex for my personal tastes though...
User avatar
Zoxive
Forum Regular
Posts: 974
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:37 pm
Location: Bay City, Michigan

Re: Framework suggestions

Post by Zoxive »

I would suggest you take a look at Kohana (http://www.kohanaphp.com/).

It isn't very well known (yet), but the source code is amazing and I love the structure.
Post Reply