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Why do frameworks suck?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:30 pm
by alex.barylski
I'm googling around reading a few articles here and there and I stumble upon this:
http://digg.com/programming/5_Next_Gene ... Frameworks
I'm curious, if I were to ask, what kind of issues have you experienced in using frameworks that turned you off of using them? Lack of documentation/tutorials is a big one for me, most frameworks do exactly what I need them to, but in slightly different ways than I would, for any given reason...
What would be your reasons and/or experiences? Being specific as possible would be great too, please.

Re: Why do frameworks suck?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:43 pm
by Weirdan
PCSpectra wrote:
Why do frameworks suck?
Because they can?
Re: Why do frameworks suck?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:07 pm
by Christopher
PCSpectra wrote:most frameworks do exactly what I need them to, but in slightly different ways than I would
I think you just defined "suck"
Now if you can define "slightly" think we can solve the problem.
I think it is funny that the comments to the article are mostly "You forgot XYZ framework!"

Re: Why do frameworks suck?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:15 pm
by kaisellgren
I don't like the performance of all frameworks (except yii). Well, okay, CI has an adequate performance..
Another thing I do not like is the level of security and the amount of (read: lack of) security tools they provide. I always feel like recoding that part of the framework myself.. which kind of defeats the point of using a framework.
I guess they don't suck for "quick projects", but when you want to code something more seriously and you aim at something larger and better, I rather code all myself (and possibly use 3rd party libraries).
Re: Why do frameworks suck?
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:58 pm
by alex.barylski
I really think performance should be a minimal influence in selecting a framework.
What I hate is that bloated usually means *complex* -- Zend for instance.
I would prefer small, simple, more abstract, using resource intensive techniques, like reflection and other neat things to automate work and minimize code.
I would swallow the Zend performance if that were the case but it's not really, IMHO.
I'm starting to wonder if some people just take comfort in knowing the framework that holds up their site is a heavy weight. Like it gives them more a feeling of accomplishment without actually doing anything, just by virtue of including a million files of 10K lines each in their project.
I kid of course, but yet I'm partially serious, after reading some talks on SitePoint and Devnetwork that I dug up...
Come to think of, I recall starting with MFC, which is a bloated frmaework. I accomplished more with less code programming the WINAPI directly.
But my applications felt more complete having that heavy beast power it...it wasn't until years later that I grew tired of fixing code that was complex that I finally decided to get pedantic about DRY KISS.
Re: Why do frameworks suck?
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:05 pm
by Christopher
You still haven't defined "slightly". I'd be interested in examples.
Re: Why do frameworks suck?
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:57 am
by Jonah Bron
My preference is to to all my own coding. I've never used a framework (libraries yes, frameworks no). I suppose it's just psychological

, but I believe it's good to not be limited by other code, and to be able to do it yourself.