Question about web design jobs...

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Wolf_22
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by Wolf_22 »

The $250 dollar example is a joke. That's why it's always wise to ask for a budget in the first telephone call/meeting, to prevent wasting any time on these things
You're right about that. I'm happy I learned this lesson.
Have you thought about specializing in other directions, like:
- managing (web) projects
- usability consultancy and/or research
- creative management
- etc
Honestly, I haven't really mostly because I'm unaware of what sort of avenues to get in line with to get into those you mention. I always had a dream of being a creative director but my mind always told me that I had to know how to do everything that could feasibly be associated with such a high level of competency. I would love to still design and even to some degree, code, but to do so would require initially assistance from someone who knows their stuff. Honestly, I fear that some of this trauma I seem to envision in all this is due to a bad experience in my first career job. I used to be a COBOL developer straight out of college. I always thought it was a messed-up way to start out in the world; having my IT degree coming from a web design internship and landing a job with a Fortune 500 company as a COBOL developer. The job sucked. Everyone ran around with their head cut-off and nobody was friendly, including my boss.

But yeah, web design (if any) is definitely something I would love to somehow pursue if it means that I would be useful in what I'm skilled at. If that means that my strengths could potentially meet the requirements of said position you noted above, then I would be open to possibilities. The only problem is being at the right place at the right time, ya know? How else would I get into those things? I do love to organize because I feel like I'm great at it. I'm good at doing things like coming up with efficient and easy-to-understand standards of operation and I'm pretty good at being concise when necessary (in either verbal or written mediums). I'm not sure if this indicates a proficiency at project management or creative consultancy... I've never really considered it. :|
Reviresco
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by Reviresco »

Wow, so many issues raised here, some related, some not. Some of the comments I can totally relate to, others are way off.

In no particular order --

$250? Add another zero to that one. Seems like that is the norm these days. That's why I don't do freelance projects any more. They expect too much for a small amount of money, and they're never finished!

Sedentary lifestyle/out of shape? An unfortunate stereotype. I put in easily 10 or 12 hours a day (not all web development, but mostly) and yet I'm in great shape. Better than most guys I know who are 20 years my junior (I'm 47). Working on a computer doesn't prevent you from eating right, hitting the gym, or going for a bike ride. Same goes for a social life!

What the previous poster said about self-training is true. I also have been doing this for 12 years and am entirely self taught. It's just the way it is! You really have to enjoy doing it, and be driven/passionate/obsessed/whatever.

You don't have to be a "code monkey". Diversify your skills. Before I even started doing this stuff, I had an education and experience in broadcasting, writing, advertising, journalism, and media production. With the dawn of the digital age, I not only learned web development, but digital video and audio production, graphic design, and misc. multimedia production. Today I do video animation alongside my web coding (often at the same time!). I plan public relations campaigns, help with TV shoots, troubleshoot multimedia and video projects, and do graphic design. AND code like a freakin' monkey!

This Drupal stuff. By the time Drupal came along, I was already way too advanced to get into it. To me it's like trying to paint a house with a brush attached to a ten-foot pole, standing outside a chain link fence, looking through an opening in a blind. I refuse to do it. You need a CMS? A blog? I'll code you a better one, faster, than what you can get from Drupal.

Here's the bottom line I've noticed. In our market (medium-large US), there are a lot of people who claim to be web developers (or even just web designers). But when I get to talk to them, whether through a project, job interview, or even on the web, I discover that a disturbing number of them are "wannabees" -- really unqualified and exaggerating their abilities. They can talk the talk (lots of buzzwords) but they can't walk the walk. I find the same trend among would-be graphic designers.

So, in light of that, it helps to be really GOOD at what you do. You don't have to be stuck working on little underpaid projects for clueless clients. You can find a job at a really good advertising agency, a cool little company, or a major corporation. Much of my portfolio is really cool Fortune 500 company stuff, but there's also a lot of casinos and car dealers too!

Aim high, grasshopper! PHP is fun! (Javascript and Ajax too!)

So there you have it. Make it so, Number One...

(PS - It also helps to have a sense of humor in this business...)
Wolf_22
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by Wolf_22 »

Scale of 1-10 (1 = knows nothing, 10 = genius)

Let me ask you this, then: where's a good place to start for someone who is around 3 or 4 from the above scale? What should I do? Sit around the house and read the PHP manual all day until I finish the sections of OOP and different PostGreSQL function stuff or whatever? What sort of clients should I gun for and how should I go about getting them? Craigslist or posting my own ads in the local newspaper???

...And you're truly right about having a sense of humor. I get so down about this stuff.
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onion2k
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by onion2k »

Wolf_22 wrote:...And all of this for possibly $250.00?
Writing small websites is becoming increasingly hard to make a living at. People's expectations of what a site will cost to produce has been coloured by the production of very high quality free web apps (Facebook, Wordpress, phpBB, etc), so now they tend to think web software is cheap. If you're going to freelance you need to be good at telling people why it'll cost whatever it'll cost, eg selling. I've said this on here before. If you can't sell, then don't even think about becoming a freelancer.
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onion2k
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by onion2k »

Wolf_22 wrote:Sit around the house and read the PHP manual all day until I finish the sections of OOP and different PostGreSQL function stuff or whatever?
You can't learn web development from the PHP manual. You can learn PHP, sure, but that isn't going to teach you how to make a good quality website. The way to learn how to make decent websites is to write websites. Look at an app, a blog for example, and write your own version. Write an e-commerce app. Write a messaging app. Write a game. Write another game. Write, write, write. You'll be learning all the way.

And, best of all, you'll also be building a portfolio that you can show prospect employers and clients. Bonus!
Wolf_22 wrote:What sort of clients should I gun for and how should I go about getting them? Craigslist or posting my own ads in the local newspaper??
Ones with lots of money. (I'm not joking)
Wolf_22
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by Wolf_22 »

You seem to know what you're talking about. Like everything else in the world, I guess this crap just requires practice to make perfect.

Let me ask you this: does it ever get better? I mean, I doubt that I'm the only person in all this that seems to have the thoughts that I have and I'm willing to bet that some of you more seasoned guys have been down this road of frustration a time or two as well. Does it ever get to a point to where you feel as if you're no longer afraid of any project or do you ever get to a point where you no longer fear being stuck behind a computer simply because things get to a point where everything runs smoothly?
Reviresco
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by Reviresco »

Network, network, network, network.

Traditional networking is considered to be stuff like joining professional groups, going to meetups, exchanging business cards, etc. -- all well and good, and if you can, do it, but I don't do any of it. I've found networking in your "daily life" to be much more fruitful. I do my best networking at my local pub with a pint in front of me. Granted, it's not your typical bar -- there's a lot of business conducted there, professionals, business owners, politicians, etc. -- but it's like what an old-school country club used to be -- a place to make contacts.

Turn your hobbies, interests and activities into networking opportunities. It works both ways -- you can get business out of it, and advance your hobbies and outside interests. I network at festivals, during breaks at my band's gigs, family gatherings, social events, you name it.

Like the previous poster said, look for ways to build practice websites, and a great way to do that is with your outside interests. Examples: I like beer. Some friends started a tiny brewery. I offered to do their website. I'm now an owner of the brewery, and it's no longer tiny -- it's "large". I offered to do the website for a local nonprofit organization. I'm now on the board of directors (stuff like that looks great on a resume). I got one my greatest gigs ever from being a musician, sitting around jamming at a campfire!

Personally, I'd rather do a free website for a good cause or for something "fun" than get underpaid to do a project by some cheap/clueless client, and those kinds of sites (the former) are not only good practice but rewarding as well.

Create your own "fun" website for your friends and make it your laboratory. I have a private, password-protected site for just my friends where I unleash all my latest experiments. They love it, and the crossover to the real world is tremendous. Last year I did an experiment involving scraping email headers, and this year I used what I learned for a project at work, and saved the company at least ten grand with it.

Find a mentor. Mine is a guy who owns a successful ad agency/production house. Extremely talented. Hates computers. I keep his system running and handle digital multimedia effects, and pick his brain on how to run a business, get new work, handle clients, come up with great ideas, etc., and I get free reign of his equipment. If you can't find a mentor, at least find other people who are in the same line of work as you, and help each other out.

As for studying the manual. I have read a lot of manuals (not the php manual on the web -- that is too heavy) but you have to take it slow. Find a good book and take your time. Right now I'm reading a great one called "PHP 5 in Practice". Grab a beer and a lawn chair, go sit out in the sun, and read five or ten pages at a time, take some notes, maybe incorporate some of it into my "laboratory".

Well, that's how I do it anyway. Your results may vary...

Also, take frequent breaks!!

-------

Was just about to post this and saw your most recent questions -- does it ever get easier? Yes and no! You get to a point of confidence. I turn down work. Yeah, I could use the extra cash, but I don't want to spend all my free time next month working on it!

Another thought on this -- web technology in the last couple years has gotten so much better. Those of us who've been coding since 1997 are like kids in a candy store. Unfortunately, clients have stayed the same. They always think they can get the coolest things they see on the web. They want CNN on a pawn shop budget.

I have to deal with huge communication problems and unrealistic expectations from clients and coworkers who just don't understand what's practical to do and what's not. You have to try to head off these problems by making it clear what you CAN do -- all these great interactive techniques we now have, Flash, video, whatever -- without having them try to reinvent the wheel, or give you one of those, "Oh, it would be SO cool if we could have a [insert incredibly impractical idea here]!"

Show them what CAN be done before they get upset at you for telling them what CAN'T be done...
Wolf_22
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by Wolf_22 »

You made some very valid points and provided some input I like. I'll give your avenues some shots and see what happens. I do try to network, but I think my primary concern at the moment tends to be that of the actual understanding and how-to application of this stuff. Your idea about a lab and whatnot seems to be a good idea and like you said about friends / mentors, this is good also. I have had a difficult time, though, finding people of like mind. I've attempted to start a web guild for the immediate area of my town, but that didn't go over very well because it turned out that I was the only one ever doing anything with it. Bogus... You get people who complain and rant about a town, but yet, when and if you ever try to do anything to improve it, they do that. Go fig.

Anyway, yeah, I'll give your ideas a try.
josh
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Re: Question about web design jobs...

Post by josh »

Try to come up with a tool that could be useful but doesnt exist, a plugin for an existing CMS or ecommerce site is a good start, find something you can put passion into, will make you at least some money, and not only will you get experience, you could end up wealthy from the experience as well as picking up tons of references. I did just this and it turns out every other person who buys your extension also has contract work they need done. You may spend several years working 14hr days but it pays off when you can work from home 3-4hr days and live very well off after you have a few years under your belt
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