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Re: How do you estimate projects

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:26 pm
by alex.barylski
One, the client might not even use you on the project, so it could be all for nothing
When I read that, this popped into my head: I actually wouldn't go with this approach with a 'client' -- only full time employers (thus far) so I know I'm getting paid. I've tried with both and like you suggest, most 'clients' jump ship after a week of not seeing any tangible, without pay.

If I ever do it again, it'll be with a advanced payment and I will deliver the specs, which they can later use on a developer in India to shed precise details on what needs to be done, etc.
Anyway, even when I do spec writing, even though I try to do a great job, I have to kind of cut it short and apply the Pareto Principle here (80/20 rule) so that I can get an estimate out and get some cash in here.
Agreed. Iterative/waterfall is a nice approach. Something Joomla really trains you to do, is decompose a complex system into a series of compnents, which can more easily be broken into individual actions and like a waterfall, become more and more atomic. This works well with Gantt charts I find, as I can quickly give a broad estimate based on components involved and iteratively refine the list with more and more sub-cases, so a client sees in real time (basically) what or how long sub-project A takes in comparison to project C and they can shift priorities easily too. I currently use FogBugz as it supports this type of development nicely.

Cheers,
Alex

Re: How do you estimate projects

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:58 am
by Jenk
josh wrote:
Jenk wrote:Providing a range reduces this risk. :)
That depends, it reduces the risk should they accept the project, but I would also argue providing a range increases the risk of the client "inventing" reasons to go somewhere else for development (oh well their loss though)
We've not experienced this so far. All of our estimating is done with full visibility to the customer*, and the majority have commented on how we sound like we know what we are talking about, more than the others that have simply taken a requirements list and come back with an arbitrary number - they also comment on how we are giving higher quotes than most others, but they are happy with that because they suspect these other quotes are way too short and the project will actually need nearer to what *we* have estimated, or that drastic corners will be cut to meet the deadline/budget!

*I.E with them in the same room if possible. If not, we document every stage and send them said documents (including pictures of white board diagrams.)