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Issue tracker project?
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:44 pm
by alex.barylski
I've been using Fogbugs for the last year or so and I love it, best tracker I have ever used, and like my underwear I cycle through new software every couple of months, so you can bet I have used many. Trac being about the only one I haven't tried because I couldn't get it installed (or it's dependencies).
Anyways, now the time has come, my interest has piqued and I am considering building my own, commercial version, maybe open source.
As a matter of curiosity, I wonder if anyone out there might be interested in collaborating with me on such a project? I would be copying Fogbugz extensively but trying to keep the interface a little more basic by default. Fogbugs can be a bit daunting but once you realize the power behind each feature, WOW is it awesome.
My second question becomes, what kind of functionality is important to you as a developer, when using an issue tracker? In fact I wouldnt' be surprised if many do not even bother with an electronic tracker but instead opt for paper. I use both but papaer usually only serves as a draft-draft before entry into a DB system.
Anyways, it's Friday, long weekend, I am just about finished work heading home soon, figured I'd pop this question and see where it goes over tehe next few days.
p.s-Ideally I'd be looking for someone that is very comfortable with DB (MySQL especially stored procs, etc) and or other databases especially MSSQL. Someone with really strong JS experience (jQuery, extJS) would also be a bonus.
Cheers,
Alex
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:52 pm
by Eran
We (my company) were looking at several issue trackers just a couple of weeks ago and couldn't find anything attractive. We checked out fogbugz and didn't really like it (clumsy UI, standard functionality). The best I've used thus far is Trac, but as you've said it's difficult to install and could use improvement in terms of user experience.
We are currently building our own for internal use and considering releasing it when it becomes mature enough. It's already surpassed what Trac did for us (though it doesn't do some of the more technical features of Trac, but we're getting there). The first thing we noticed is that we have to design the interface for several roles, as they have different requirements from the system - developers, clients and QA people. I would say the vast majority of issue trackers today focus on developers exclusively, and it shows.
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:55 pm
by alex.barylski
I would say the vast majority of issue trackers today focus on developers exclusively, and it shows.
Agreed.
Although I am not sure I understand the need to offer different interfaces for different roles. I thought FogBugz did a very good job. We use it at work for multiple projects, everything from aerospace QA to software development.
Can you give me specific cases?
Cheers,
Alex
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:03 pm
by Eran
I didn't say offer different interfaces for different roles, but the interface (that would be one interface) should accommodate different roles successfully.
Can you give me specific cases?
Examples:
1. As a developer, I'm interested in seeing issues that have been confirmed by a support / QA person and are assigned to me. I want to be able to go over those rapidly and mark them as done as I fix them.
2. As a QA person, I want to see new submitted bugs that have yet to be confirmed / assigned, and prepare the information development would need to fix them.
3. As a client, I want to see status updated / new comments on issues I opened. Probably would like to receive Email alerts when more information is required from me.
Those are just some basic scenarios. There are many more specific cases to cover
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:13 pm
by alex.barylski
I didn't say offer different interfaces for different roles, but the interface (that would be one interface) should accommodate different roles successfully.
Ahh OK that makes sense. What did you find you disliked specifically about FogBugz??? Personally I find it's filtering system so incredibly powerful and very intuitive, but each to their own I suppose.
Cheers,
Alex
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:26 pm
by Eran
What did you find you disliked specifically about FogBugz???
The entire team used it for a couple of days. Those were some of our thoughts
* %he overall look is very dated. Looks more like a 90's app
* The filtering is not obvious, it took everybody a couple minutes to find it. After that, the filter menu it too cluttered for most general purposes. It would've been better to follow an 80 / 20 rule with what's shown immediately
* Adding a comment on an issue is very weird - instead of performing it from the main issue view like most issue trackers, you "edit" it to add a comment?
It goes on, but basically trac was better at everything fogbugz does and it can be installed instead of having hosted accounts which is a big plus for us. Still, we have some issues with trac we hope to resolve with our own tracker
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:05 am
by matthijs
Just from a quick look at FogBugz, it seems quite feature rich. Even timeline charts for work completed, etc. Haven't used it, but did you guys use all those features? Or only a small subset?
With software like this, the more features, the more complicated it gets. I have always wanted to use an issue tracker with my (client) projects, because keeping track of things to be done by who is a hassle. But so far haven't done so because if I want a client to use such a system, it has to be very, very, very simple. It's probably hard to imagine, but I have clients who pay me to log in to their wordpress site to update their content, because it's too much hassle for them.
I guess that's what Pytrin points to as well. That he wants a different, more simple interface for his clients then for him self. Maybe even have the interface customizable. So that for some clients, you simplify it to a very basic todo-list like app. For others, yo allow more features to be shown
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:20 am
by Eran
matthijs hit it on the spot. all of those issue trackers are very feature rich, which isn't bad by itself, but they mostly clutter the interface and confuse less technical users. There should levels of feature exposure that could be enabled through the interface that could allow users who don't need anything more than the basics to have a more streamlined user experience. It reminds me a little of how many desktop apps are built with 8-10 menus at the top (File,Edit,Options, ....) and you need to start exploring the entire interface every time you want to find something.
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:32 pm
by alex.barylski
%he overall look is very dated. Looks more like a 90's app
I wonder if you used the older version because I recall the interface looking like crap before too, but a few years later trying it again, it was much improved.
The filtering is not obvious, it took everybody a couple minutes to find it. After that, the filter menu it too cluttered for most general purposes. It would've been better to follow an 80 / 20 rule with what's shown immediately
I don't think it could be more obvious, IMO. Again you might have tried an older version. The latest has the filter menu right above the tickets, I can quickly filter whether I want tickets assigned to me, created by me, projects, types, etc.
Basically filter in one click based on any field or fields(s) which are stored on a per ticket basis.
Just from a quick look at FogBugz, it seems quite feature rich. Even timeline charts for work completed, etc. Haven't used it, but did you guys use all those features? Or only a small subset?
I use every feature, except milestones but that is about to change within the next couple months as we grow.
With software like this, the more features, the more complicated it gets. I have always wanted to use an issue tracker with my (client) projects, because keeping track of things to be done by who is a hassle. But so far haven't done so because if I want a client to use such a system, it has to be very, very, very simple. It's probably hard to imagine, but I have clients who pay me to log in to their wordpress site to update their content, because it's too much hassle for them.
FogBugz I think has a fairly powerful API you could use to probably have clients log into a simpler interface so they are not bombed with the complex interface of FogBugz. Yes with more features comes more cost in terms of learning curve, but something trivial like (TaskFreak) is simply not powerful enough, I needed something more robust to properly manage all tasks getting thrown at me. Plus I'm a nutt when it comes micro managing and I love stats (how many bugs per month versus features, etc) which I am pretty sure FogBugs will let me track.
Personally I don't think FogBugz is intended for basic end users, it's more for development teams and managers.
Cheers,
Alex
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:38 pm
by Eran
I wonder if you used the older version
We tried it about two weeks, so unless they changed it since then ...
FogBugz I think has a fairly powerful API
What's the point of building a new interface on top of their API... the interface is half the work in building something like this. I'd rather build my own tracker while I'm at it, and control every aspect.
Personally I don't think FogBugz is intended for basic end users, it's more for development teams and managers.
There are plenty of people involved in the development process that are not technical users. Designers, QA people, clients, even most managers. And regardless, even technical users could benefit from a more usable UI, why do we have to suffer the feature explosion syndrome?
Just bear in mind that since you have been using fogbugz extensively for a while, you've become quite used to it. New users have a much different experience than you.
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:15 am
by alex.barylski
I'd rather build my own tracker while I'm at it, and control every aspect.
I too have built issue trackers, both for internal and client use, but I would disagree that the interface is half the work. There is lot of busines logic that goes on behind the scenes.
If all I have to do is ask a client for a login ID and use a web service to pull only tickets concerning them, thats easypeasy, I had that done in less than 5 mins
Just bear in mind that since you have been using fogbugz extensively for a while, you've become quite used to it. New users have a much different experience than you.
No of course, I'm not saying otherwise. However fogbugz was easy enough and plesant enough for me, that I continued using it. Others were overly complicated, or usually to basic to meet workflow, organization requirements, etc.
Cheers,
Alex
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:39 am
by Eran
Just thought I'd mention this, but we have built an internal issue tracker and have been using it extensively for about a week now. We are getting great results so far, everybody's loving it and it has definitely improved our workflow
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:51 am
by matthijs
pytrin wrote:Just thought I'd mention this, but we have built an internal issue tracker and have been using it extensively for about a week now. We are getting great results so far, everybody's loving it and it has definitely improved our workflow
In fact, it improved Pytrins' workflow so much that it gives him a massive advantage over every competitor out there. Sorry guys, it's not going to be released
(just kidding
)
Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:20 pm
by Eran
hehe
For sure it gives us an advantage over our previous process, so at least that

Re: Issue tracker project?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:46 pm
by alex.barylski
I suppose something custom would work better if it complies more with your current workflow...but then again many times when you use a specialized peice of software which has been developed over the years their workflow is usually superior to your own (or mine or anyone for that matter).
Take SVN for instance, how many people use it, but don't understand the concepts of branching, tagging, etc? They only have a single trunk for the development of one or more versions of software and every commits to a single repo. I've seen this several times, both in local development shops and major PHP players.
Sure their using SVN which is 50% of the battle and much of the gain, but by fully taking advantage of the suggested best practices you truly stand to gain. Same applies to issue trackers, frameworks, etc.
It's the learning curve that throws most people off, or what they feel is a lack of control which is really just a different way of doing the same thing.
I'd be interested in seeing this tracker
Cheers,
Alex