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Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:33 am
by matthijs
Probably many of you have heard about Buzz by now and the privacy concerns many people have with this new service from Google. See for example
http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/12/google-buzz-privacy/

I was lucky enough not to have a Google Profile online, so by immediately turning off everything Buzz related, blocking every "follower", etc I think I have limited the possible risk. I'm probably not going to use Buzz.

But this incident does concern me. of course it has been known for a long time now that Google is NOT in the business of keeping your things private. Quite the opposite, their whole business model is making everything in the world findable. Including the color of your underwear and the love letters you write. But I did have the impression that my gmail was relatively safe. However, I'm seriously considering looking for alternatives. However, which?

Other online email service like hotmail, yahoo, etc are not as user friendly. And have the same privacy concerns. So then you are limited to using a regular mail app. At the moment I have Thunderbird. It's improving, but it still not as good as gmail, with its' easy message conversation architecture, label archiving, online availability, etc

Do you people have any concerns about privacy issues? Do you have a strategy for your email online? Are there other good email apps?

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:54 am
by ornerybits
I've got so many email addresses now it almost doesn't matter :)

My gmail acct is basically my spam account -- signing up for things.

I use Thunderbird for my personal and company email that are setup through our own domains.

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:11 am
by alex.barylski
Install a third party web based email manager, like RoundCube on a shared host???

Although my concerns with RoundCube are security and usability. I have used it several times in the past and has always irritated me to the point I no longer wish to use it. Same goes SurgarCRM and vTiger email clients.

I guess it's a win-lose situation for everyone, on one hand you use something free and quality suffers, etc. Likewise, if you use something quality like Gmail and you lose a lot of privacy, etc.

Personally I don't do enough with Gmail to concern myself with privacy, then again maybe I better take a better peak. I do actually received interesting photos occassionally, which could possibly embaress me at the very least. :P

Cheers,
Alex

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:43 am
by matthijs
Not sure about installing a webmail on a server. As you say, that's probably more insecure then gmail. And having a few Gb's of mail on there will cost some money as well.

The one thing that gmail has which is a massive time saver is the conversation/thread feature. You know, all reply's and re-reply's are threaded together. In a normal email program like Thunderbird it's very annoying to search through long lists of emails different folders to find a certain replies on emails.

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:02 pm
by greyhoundcode
There seems to be some basic threading in action on my copy of Thunderbird. Perhaps I installed an extension for this.

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:14 pm
by matthijs
yes, I found out about that. You can thread emails from the same conversation, but without the reply's. And you still have to click through each message separately. So it's about 25% on it's way of becoming really useful

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:48 am
by kaisellgren
Come on, there are no alternatives to Google. 8O

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:25 am
by matthijs
Yeah, one day you hear someone knocking on your door. When you open it, a man enters and starts packing the stuff in your house. When asked what the heck he's doing, he'll tell you he's from Google and that he needs to digitize the last things Google doesn't know about you, yet.

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:49 am
by John Cartwright
matthijs wrote:Yeah, one day you hear someone knocking on your door. When you open it, a man enters and starts packing the stuff in your house. When asked what the heck he's doing, he'll tell you he's from Google and that he needs to digitize the last things Google doesn't know about you, yet.
They've already profiled you based on years of search engines inputs..

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:05 am
by Benjamin
I'm a bit baffled by this post because many of the comments seem to defy logic. So.. with that said, I am playing devils advocate here.
matthijs wrote:Probably many of you have heard about Buzz by now and the privacy concerns many people have with this new service from Google.
Yes, I'm sure many in our industry are aware of this and the subsequent immediate changes to the service.
matthijs wrote:I was lucky enough not to have a Google Profile online, so by immediately turning off everything Buzz related, blocking every "follower", etc I think I have limited the possible risk.
What specific risk did you limit? What were the implications of this risk? What impact would this negated risk have had on you or your business? Has this risk been mitigated by the changes google has implemented based on user feedback? Are you still "at risk"?
matthijs wrote:But this incident does concern me.
What specific concerns do you have?
matthijs wrote:of course it has been known for a long time now that Google is NOT in the business of keeping your things private.
What specifically has been well known? How long has this been known? What "things" are you referring to?
matthijs wrote:Quite the opposite, their whole business model is making everything in the world findable.
Define "everything".
matthijs wrote:Including the color of your underwear and the love letters you write.
Where can I research the color of an individuals underwear color? Where can I track down love letters written about me by women I have dated?
matthijs wrote:But I did have the impression that my gmail was relatively safe.
What gave you this impression? What changed your impression? Do you feel it is not secure? How is it not secure? How could you make it more secure?
matthijs wrote:However, I'm seriously considering looking for alternatives. However, which?
What would you be satisfied with?
matthijs wrote:Other online email service like hotmail, yahoo, etc are not as user friendly. And have the same privacy concerns.
What privacy concerns do hotmail, yahoo and other email providers share with google?

DISCLAIMER: I use google and am happy with it.

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:20 am
by Eran
Try Yahoo mail, it's pretty nice. Also, I use thunderbird myself and I'm pretty pleased with it
By the way, I share your concerns. Google has no respect for your privacy, copyrights, trademarks and whatever they can find on you online.

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:18 am
by matthijs
@astions:
astions wrote:What specific risk did you limit? What were the implications of this risk? What impact would this negated risk have had on you or your business? Has this risk been mitigated by the changes google has implemented based on user feedback? Are you still "at risk"?
People who have a public Google profile page, knowingly or unknowingly, had all their "google buzz friends" put online on that page, without their consent and without them knowing it, the moment Buzz went online. So that list of followers and followed people was created by google, based on who you emailed privately with. Those lists were put online. Maybe it doesn't matter for you that the whole world knows exactly who you are related to in your private email traffic, but there are many situations in which this can be a serious concern. For example, an iranian protester has emailed with a foreign journalist. Now the authorities can see that journalist in his list of followers. And the guy gets arrested. There are many more examples, related to work, relationships, etc

As I also have understood, "buzz" content you posted was made public on that profile page. Again, many people might not even be aware of that.

So those are some real concerns.
astions wrote:What specific concerns do you have?
That my "private" email and contacts ends up being shared/breached/etc
astions wrote:What specifically has been well known? How long has this been known? What "things" are you referring to?
Everything! Email, chats, contact lists, data I might sent or receive.
astions wrote:What gave you this impression? What changed your impression? Do you feel it is not secure? How is it not secure? How could you make it more secure?
Email is supposed to be private. Not shared. What changed my impression is the fact that Google decided to change that. To put private data of me online, open for everybody to see.
What would you be satisfied with?
A decent email program.
What privacy concerns do hotmail, yahoo and other email providers share with google?
For one, your email is sitting there on some server over which you have no control. This is not my main concern however, since my computer at home is probably less secure from burglars then a Google data center. More worrying which all those free services have in common is that one day they might decide to change their policies and do what they want with your data.


What I'm going to do is do more with Thunderbird. I already use it, but will try to use my online mail accounts less and less.

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:52 am
by superdezign
I don't think I need privacy. I don't do anything *too* illegal. Besides, anything "bad" I do, I used Google in order to do it. ;)

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:17 am
by matthijs
@superdezign: privacy has little to do with (not) exposing illegal activity.

Re: Alternatives to Google and gmail?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:32 pm
by superdezign
Eh. If you want online privacy, then maintain anonymity. You can't have a Facebook account and videos of yourself on YouTube, and then get angry at Google for sharing this content to the people that you already maintain contact with.

By the way, http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/n ... ed-on.html.