Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
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gotfunction
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- Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:47 am
Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
I would really like to get a job as a php developer but I don't know if I'm ready to start applying for jobs. I've got no formal education in computer sciences. I've learned on my own so I'm having a difficult time judging whether my skills are adequate or not. I do have a degree in nutrition but I don't think that will help unless the mere fact that I have a college degree is a plus.
so basically...
- I've created 1 website (I could post a link if that would help). It required xhtml, css, javascript, jquery, php, mysql, and a bit of ajax. Took just over a year to go from knowing nothing to launching the site.
- I feel confident with xhtml and css but I feel I may lack experience with using them on different project since I've only made the one site. So, if I were asked to create another site from scratch it would take me awhile to figure out how to hand-code a tableless cross-browser friendly template. Especially since the one site I did used a cms (vbulletin/vbadvanced), but I'm sure I could do it.
- I'm not too bad with javascript. The dom still trips me up and I could use a refresher since I used jquery for most of the project. I'm good with jquery, including jquery UI.
- I feel confident with php. The project required a lot of it. I didn't use much OOP but I've since read about it and understand it. I'm just worried that the lack of practical experience would be a huge negative.
- The site required a couple mysql databases, so I became familiar with sql including inserts, deletes, updates, multi-table queries, left joins. I fear nothing too fancy though. I did read a about database normalization so I know how to create an efficient schema.
- I did do some ajax using javascript (not jquery) but it was pretty much the bear minimum of ajax you can do. I'm sure I can learn more about it if I had too though. I don't know xml or json but I'm sure I can learn that if need be too.
Those are my honest qualifications. Would I even be looked at? Any advice on what to do about my resume since the extent of my experience and education is from the creation of a single website? Do I need a kick-ass cover letter?
so basically...
- I've created 1 website (I could post a link if that would help). It required xhtml, css, javascript, jquery, php, mysql, and a bit of ajax. Took just over a year to go from knowing nothing to launching the site.
- I feel confident with xhtml and css but I feel I may lack experience with using them on different project since I've only made the one site. So, if I were asked to create another site from scratch it would take me awhile to figure out how to hand-code a tableless cross-browser friendly template. Especially since the one site I did used a cms (vbulletin/vbadvanced), but I'm sure I could do it.
- I'm not too bad with javascript. The dom still trips me up and I could use a refresher since I used jquery for most of the project. I'm good with jquery, including jquery UI.
- I feel confident with php. The project required a lot of it. I didn't use much OOP but I've since read about it and understand it. I'm just worried that the lack of practical experience would be a huge negative.
- The site required a couple mysql databases, so I became familiar with sql including inserts, deletes, updates, multi-table queries, left joins. I fear nothing too fancy though. I did read a about database normalization so I know how to create an efficient schema.
- I did do some ajax using javascript (not jquery) but it was pretty much the bear minimum of ajax you can do. I'm sure I can learn more about it if I had too though. I don't know xml or json but I'm sure I can learn that if need be too.
Those are my honest qualifications. Would I even be looked at? Any advice on what to do about my resume since the extent of my experience and education is from the creation of a single website? Do I need a kick-ass cover letter?
Re: Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
Well... right up front, you're talking about at least two different disciplines.
If you want to write PHP, or any other server-side scripting language, understand that the creation of [x]html/css is, ideally, the job of a designer. If you're slicing images, you're doing something that's a bit outside of actual web programming, which would be the discipline under which PHP falls.
Javascript (which includes AJAX calls) and HTML design/positioning are certainly things you'll deal with as a web programmer, but it's ideal to use libraries (JQuery being among the best) to handle those things. Your time as a web programmer should be spent writing code that handles and serves data; the formatting should be provided, and the presentation should be minimal on your end.
This is, of course, ideaistic: I was once told (after having been at this for years) that you should never develop ANYTHING without a scope document. As anyone who's programmed for any amount of time can tell you, this is a ridiculous requirement. Idealistic and utterly unrealistic. But it's those ideals that you should work towards: Always try to define, as well as you can, the requirements you'll need to meet and decide up front how flexible your code will need to be to meet them.
I've recommended it here before, and I'll say it again: I don't consider MVC to be the end-all, be-all of web development concepts, but it's an invaluable tool for learning the ways in which PHP can be applied without the horrifically unmanageable consolidated HTML/PHP pages that we all write as absolute beginners. The Model-View-Controller model will help you understand the value of separating the presentation, data parsing and data storage layers into which a notable majority of websites can be divided.
Another concept that's worthile but should not be taken at face value as the Second Coming is "design patterns." They can be quite interesting, but all they amount to (by design) is common themes you'll see over and over again while writing any type of software. The problem with some of the prevalent ones is that they grew out of Java: If you ever voluntarily use the Factory pattern, ask yourself what kind of person you've become and whether your mother would approve. They also lend themselves to overzealous application; spending too much time consuming design patterns will blind you to other, potentially simpler, solutions to whichever problems you happen to face.
The short answer: No, you're not ready to be a badass gunslinging hardcore infallible web guru.
The most important thing you can possibly realize is that you'll never be more suitable than you are now unless you work for it: Your choice is between seeking employment as you are and continuing to self-educate. You take a risk either way -- you either sell yourself underqualified or you spend unpaid time gaining qualification -- but you need to realize that potential employers take on a risk by employing you as well. The less experience you actually have, the less efficient you will be for your employer, and that's something you should consider before you suggest that people actually hire you.
Anyway, this is what happens when you drink too much on a Monday night. Really, though, I proofread it several times and I swear it's good advice.
If you want to write PHP, or any other server-side scripting language, understand that the creation of [x]html/css is, ideally, the job of a designer. If you're slicing images, you're doing something that's a bit outside of actual web programming, which would be the discipline under which PHP falls.
Javascript (which includes AJAX calls) and HTML design/positioning are certainly things you'll deal with as a web programmer, but it's ideal to use libraries (JQuery being among the best) to handle those things. Your time as a web programmer should be spent writing code that handles and serves data; the formatting should be provided, and the presentation should be minimal on your end.
This is, of course, ideaistic: I was once told (after having been at this for years) that you should never develop ANYTHING without a scope document. As anyone who's programmed for any amount of time can tell you, this is a ridiculous requirement. Idealistic and utterly unrealistic. But it's those ideals that you should work towards: Always try to define, as well as you can, the requirements you'll need to meet and decide up front how flexible your code will need to be to meet them.
I've recommended it here before, and I'll say it again: I don't consider MVC to be the end-all, be-all of web development concepts, but it's an invaluable tool for learning the ways in which PHP can be applied without the horrifically unmanageable consolidated HTML/PHP pages that we all write as absolute beginners. The Model-View-Controller model will help you understand the value of separating the presentation, data parsing and data storage layers into which a notable majority of websites can be divided.
Another concept that's worthile but should not be taken at face value as the Second Coming is "design patterns." They can be quite interesting, but all they amount to (by design) is common themes you'll see over and over again while writing any type of software. The problem with some of the prevalent ones is that they grew out of Java: If you ever voluntarily use the Factory pattern, ask yourself what kind of person you've become and whether your mother would approve. They also lend themselves to overzealous application; spending too much time consuming design patterns will blind you to other, potentially simpler, solutions to whichever problems you happen to face.
The short answer: No, you're not ready to be a badass gunslinging hardcore infallible web guru.
The most important thing you can possibly realize is that you'll never be more suitable than you are now unless you work for it: Your choice is between seeking employment as you are and continuing to self-educate. You take a risk either way -- you either sell yourself underqualified or you spend unpaid time gaining qualification -- but you need to realize that potential employers take on a risk by employing you as well. The less experience you actually have, the less efficient you will be for your employer, and that's something you should consider before you suggest that people actually hire you.
Anyway, this is what happens when you drink too much on a Monday night. Really, though, I proofread it several times and I swear it's good advice.
Re: Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
Seems fine, for junior programmer. I'd advise you to look for job in a team to start with, not sole developer on a project. This will allow you to learn from others more experienced programmers while partly relieving you from responsibility - you wouldn't be responsible for entire project's fate. Also avoid jobs where you have to do 10 sites a month - even if it pays off in terms of money it's hardly a good place to learn, from programmer's perspective.gotfunction wrote:Those are my honest qualifications. Would I even be looked at?
Re: Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
I strongly endorse Weirdan's advice. Also phu's commentary is worthwhile, but I think Weirdan has cut right to the core of the issue. Anyone searching for a job should think about it from the employer's viewpoint, as well as his own. And one thing you want to avoid like the plague is finding yourself suddenly working solo and finding that, despite your demonstrated ability to learn on your own, you can't meet your employer's needs, resulting in a bad ending to what you hoped would be a good learning experience. Look for a team assignment where you acknowledge that you're the new kid on the block. With a couple of years of such employment behind you, you can compete with the pros. Good luck.
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gotfunction
- Forum Newbie
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- Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:47 am
Re: Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
great responses guys.
phu - I've read about the differences between a web developer and web designer. I'm certainly more of a developer but I know employers want some knowledge of design elements too. I'm actually not fond of the design aspect. The most frustrating bugs I've had to deal with were browser bugs where they display html/css differently. All the different types of browsers and all the different versions of each... not my favorite thing to spend time on (let IE6 die!!!). But as I read about how it used to be, I consider myself lucky.
I will look into MVC and design patterns. They sound like something a good php developer should be knowledgeable of, or at least aware of starting out.
weirdan & califdon - working with a team sounds ideal for a novice trying to learn the ropes. I didn't consider that before but I will look for that situation when I do look for a job.
thanks guys. I'm definitely not a badass gunslinging hardcore infallible web guru atm, but hopefully some day lol.
phu - I've read about the differences between a web developer and web designer. I'm certainly more of a developer but I know employers want some knowledge of design elements too. I'm actually not fond of the design aspect. The most frustrating bugs I've had to deal with were browser bugs where they display html/css differently. All the different types of browsers and all the different versions of each... not my favorite thing to spend time on (let IE6 die!!!). But as I read about how it used to be, I consider myself lucky.
I will look into MVC and design patterns. They sound like something a good php developer should be knowledgeable of, or at least aware of starting out.
weirdan & califdon - working with a team sounds ideal for a novice trying to learn the ropes. I didn't consider that before but I will look for that situation when I do look for a job.
thanks guys. I'm definitely not a badass gunslinging hardcore infallible web guru atm, but hopefully some day lol.
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Seymour Clufley
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- Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:34 am
Re: Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
It sounds like you learn pretty damn fast, though. All that in a year?!
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gotfunction
- Forum Newbie
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Re: Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
I had a great project to motivate me. Plus, I went part time at my job so I had extra time. At first I just wanted to make the site. Somewhere during the process I decided that I really liked web development and started thinking about a job in the future.
I think I can fill an entry level position but there doesn't seem to be many entry level jobs available. At least not in CT. I'm willing to relocate though, so I'll be checking out the market on the east coast, preferably more southern (I'm an avid runner and these winters are killer). I'm hoping I can find a job without knowing someone that knows someone type of deals, cause I know no one. You know?
//goes back to studies
any advice on which framework I should learn first? zend framework is well documented but old, cakephp is purportedly the most widely used, and codeignitor is the most easy to use. But what do most employers want me to know?
I think I can fill an entry level position but there doesn't seem to be many entry level jobs available. At least not in CT. I'm willing to relocate though, so I'll be checking out the market on the east coast, preferably more southern (I'm an avid runner and these winters are killer). I'm hoping I can find a job without knowing someone that knows someone type of deals, cause I know no one. You know?
//goes back to studies
any advice on which framework I should learn first? zend framework is well documented but old, cakephp is purportedly the most widely used, and codeignitor is the most easy to use. But what do most employers want me to know?
Re: Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
I doubt there's a real answer to that. You can't really change your odds much by learning "the most popular" language or framework. My advice is to make sure you know the basics of HTML, CSS, Javascript, Php as well as you possibly can. Check with local (or wherever you might be considering) state employment offices and nonprofit placement centers, and spend some time reading the 'help wanted' boards. See if you see a trend in your area of choice, and what kind of companies they are. Start-ups may be more interested in certain skills than established companies. Software development organizations may be more interested in different skills than industrial IT departments. etc. Look for patterns. But mostly, try to learn whatever you learn solidly. If you really understand the fundamentals, you'll probably be able to convince an employer that you can learn their current favorite, but if you spend all your time and effort learning the "coolest" new framework, you're limiting yourself to those organizations that are using it.
Re: Advice needed - Am I ready to look for a job?
And HTTP! Understanding what is sent over the wire does wonders.califdon wrote:My advice is to make sure you know the basics of HTML, CSS, Javascript, Php as well as you possibly can.
On the other hand, skim through the manuals of popular frameworks. Don't go into much details though, just look for common terminology and concepts. This shouldn't take long, but it will enable you to google those things later - to search you have to know what to search for