Hi,
We have a fashion e-commerce website to develop. After IA and graphic design work were completed in-house, we tried to outsource the development portion overseas to no avail. (Two times, we got stuck with sleazy hustler types.) Having wasted a lot of time already, now we are left with an option of increasing our budget, and finding someone here in the New York City, or at least in the country. We have all the PSDs, and detailed point-by-point instructions plus IA-related documents like process flow. We need someone (or a couple of partners) to finish front- AND back-end, ideally by next spring.
I have a few questions as to finding someone:
1) What jobsites would be good for posting an ad?
2) Are agencies worth it when we can screen in and out candidates? 40% commission sounds way too hefty...
3) What would be a ballpark figure and timeline? The site is fairly high-end. We have 56 PSDs, and some of them have layer overlays. We would need a good jQuery person, especially.
4) If it's off-site, what would be a good way to monitor the time being charged?
5) The last guys started this in Magento although they didn't make much progress beyond their template. Would it make sense to find another Magento person, and finish it, or to be more open about the platform in case someone can get it done even quicker?
Feedback would be appreciated it.
E-Commerce Development Project
Moderator: General Moderators
Re: E-Commerce Development Project
You may have found it: You're just in the wrong forum. Check out:What jobsites would be good for posting an ad?
viewforum.php?f=17 to hire someone or
viewforum.php?f=26 to look for volunteer
I agree, that does sound like a hefty price, I would keep on looking.Are agencies worth it when we can screen in and out candidates? 40% commission sounds way too hefty...
My personal opinion: I would determine the max amount of time you are willing to wait to have the project complete, cut that in half, and start taking bids from programmers.What would be a ballpark figure and timeline? The site is fairly high-end. We have 56 PSDs, and some of them have layer overlays. We would need a good jQuery person, especially.
Time being charged? You mean like per hour. Don't hire anyone charging by time, you will be taken advantage of. Charge by project difficulty and deadline to complete (take bids)If it's off-site, what would be a good way to monitor the time being charged?
Any decent programmer charging for their work would be able to work with or around what you already have whether or not they are familiar with Magento. I would just make sure to mention and let the programmer decide. (My biggest problem when programming things for my bosses was always trying to do what they decided should be done rather than be free to get the job done as I see fit.)The last guys started this in Magento although they didn't make much progress beyond their template. Would it make sense to find another Magento person, and finish it, or to be more open about the platform in case someone can get it done even quicker?
That said, I'm not a programmer for hire. But I have programmed some applications for use in a commercial office environment. It was not my job, it made my job easier (and for any other programmers reading this, don't tell your boss; they WILL take advantage of you). Fortunately for them I'm an honest person and did not return the favor (once they started paying me for programs) as I was allowed to program applications at home they would always ask "how many hours did this take?" I could throw out any number I choose and it would be on my paycheck. I would spend around 16 hours or so per day programming and tell them 8, but I was probably only actually typing and researching for 5-7 hours of that time, and on 'break' the rest. Which is why I would never hire per hour, expect people to be dishonest (not honest) and it will be much harder to take advantage of you.
Re: E-Commerce Development Project
Thank you very much for taking time and effort with you reply. One thing that I'd like to make clear is by "cutting that in half", do you mean setting that as deadline for prospective bidders? Also, some people advised me against using sites like rent-a-coder ... "you get what you pay for" kind of thing. I found our current provider, soon-to-be last provider, on Guru.com, and they, for whatever reason, still have good reviews and references. In actuality, not only did these guys turn out incapable of heavy customization, I also have had to deal with their sleazy street hustling. Would you still recommend using those freelance sites?
Re: E-Commerce Development Project
You're welcome. I'm happy to help when I can. I tend to agree with old adage "You get what you pay for", don't cheap out; but don't let yourself be ripped off either. I can't personally recommend or advise against that site inparticular (or others like it) and I would not steer clear of all coder for hirer sites, I'm sure they all have bad apples lurking about; but I also have no doubt some very honest hard working people use those types of sites as well.
What I would look for is a site that allows (and encourages) the buyer(s) to comment on the coder(s) work after your project is (or if it is ever) complete and look for a programmer with a good track history of happy customers. I would categorize site(s) like that to be similar to cragis list. Sure someone might be blatantly robbing people, but someone else might really need to be giving away their furniture for free. The difference with a programmer though, is if you can't obtain any sort of track record, from the internet or the programmer themselves, I would steer clear or not hire them unless they have one seriously low bid and you're willing to give them a chance. They could very well be new, I would have a hard time providing any track record myself.
Another route could be to learn enough about programming yourself (might not take as much effort as you'd imagine) to divide the workload into segments. Such as hiring one programmer for a login script, one programmer to make a few CSS files for themes, a security person to review the whole thing after it's done. Doing it this way has major disadvantages and advantages.
Advantages:
-Each programmer will be able to complete their task quicker, thus sending lower bids for each segment.
-If you have a need to keep your code proprietary, no one programmer is going to have the whole of your source code.
-If any single programmer flakes out, your project is still being worked on in other areas.
Disadvantages:
-The codes segments may not work together as expected even if you explicitly inform the programmer that their piece of the project must stand on its own, it just happens sometimes (even to the best of programmers).
-You may need to hire a single programmer to piece it all together in the end which could be counter productive.
And if you're super worried, maybe you should look for someone that has some certification, or an associates or bachelors degree (yes it'll probably cost more, but degrees are not cheep). However, many people cheat on their test while flying by the seat of their pants to get that piece of paper that says they know their stuff when 15yo computer kid may be able to blow them out the water skill wise.
And my last suggestion is how you pay them. I would only pay them by PayPal and request the completed project be sent by mail. Doing this could be really good or really bad. The good part is if they never send you a CD with your code on it, PayPal will be happy to give your money back. The really bad part is if they send you a CD with nothing on it, they will have proof of delivery and you'll be SOL if you run into a smart shady cat.
The long and short of it all is there is no surefire way to make sure a person is trustworthy, assume they are not and take every precaution is really all you can do.
I'm sorry to hear about you hiring those incompetent flakes, but unfortunately, it happens. And avoid anyone from Nigeria (sorry Nigeria! but it has to be like that for now.) And if you can get a contact phone number and address for the programmer, that would show they are more willing (and not worried) to let you know who they really are.
And if you are thinking about using one (or looking at a few) of the programmer for hire sites, I'll be happy to browse around them a bit and offer you my personal opinion of if I would use the site and why or why not.
Best of luck to you!
What I would look for is a site that allows (and encourages) the buyer(s) to comment on the coder(s) work after your project is (or if it is ever) complete and look for a programmer with a good track history of happy customers. I would categorize site(s) like that to be similar to cragis list. Sure someone might be blatantly robbing people, but someone else might really need to be giving away their furniture for free. The difference with a programmer though, is if you can't obtain any sort of track record, from the internet or the programmer themselves, I would steer clear or not hire them unless they have one seriously low bid and you're willing to give them a chance. They could very well be new, I would have a hard time providing any track record myself.
That's exactly what I meant. Half may be a little harsh. But I certainly would not want to need something done in 60 days and get it in 59 days and 23 hours. Give yourself some breathing room. But remember, the less time you allocate for completion, the more it's likely to cost you. And if the programmer is going to miss the deadline, they should know, and inform you long before it comes and passes.One thing that I'd like to make clear is by "cutting that in half", do you mean setting that as deadline for prospective bidders?
I have not personally used that site either, however, if it allows you to post reviews, make sure you let others no about those shady cats you hired. I would also check back to make sure your reviews stays on the site. If it doesn't. I would look for a well know site that reviews other website and make a serious public complaint.on Guru.com, and they, for whatever reason, still have good reviews and references
Another route could be to learn enough about programming yourself (might not take as much effort as you'd imagine) to divide the workload into segments. Such as hiring one programmer for a login script, one programmer to make a few CSS files for themes, a security person to review the whole thing after it's done. Doing it this way has major disadvantages and advantages.
Advantages:
-Each programmer will be able to complete their task quicker, thus sending lower bids for each segment.
-If you have a need to keep your code proprietary, no one programmer is going to have the whole of your source code.
-If any single programmer flakes out, your project is still being worked on in other areas.
Disadvantages:
-The codes segments may not work together as expected even if you explicitly inform the programmer that their piece of the project must stand on its own, it just happens sometimes (even to the best of programmers).
-You may need to hire a single programmer to piece it all together in the end which could be counter productive.
And if you're super worried, maybe you should look for someone that has some certification, or an associates or bachelors degree (yes it'll probably cost more, but degrees are not cheep). However, many people cheat on their test while flying by the seat of their pants to get that piece of paper that says they know their stuff when 15yo computer kid may be able to blow them out the water skill wise.
And my last suggestion is how you pay them. I would only pay them by PayPal and request the completed project be sent by mail. Doing this could be really good or really bad. The good part is if they never send you a CD with your code on it, PayPal will be happy to give your money back. The really bad part is if they send you a CD with nothing on it, they will have proof of delivery and you'll be SOL if you run into a smart shady cat.
The long and short of it all is there is no surefire way to make sure a person is trustworthy, assume they are not and take every precaution is really all you can do.
I'm sorry to hear about you hiring those incompetent flakes, but unfortunately, it happens. And avoid anyone from Nigeria (sorry Nigeria! but it has to be like that for now.) And if you can get a contact phone number and address for the programmer, that would show they are more willing (and not worried) to let you know who they really are.
And if you are thinking about using one (or looking at a few) of the programmer for hire sites, I'll be happy to browse around them a bit and offer you my personal opinion of if I would use the site and why or why not.
Best of luck to you!
Re: E-Commerce Development Project
Wow, you're too nice, my friend. I certainly appreciate the trouble that you took in writing me.
These folks are from India. Obviously, bidding for a project beyond their means is an issue in itself, but the main problem has been that they constantly pull their sleazy hustler shtick in a legitimate business transaction. At any rate, the employer seems to start realizing, again, you get what you pay for, so that's a good side.
I'm thinking of hiring two programmers. One for JavaScript, and the other obviously for backend. CSS, I can fine-tune. Probably locally this time though. We already have wasted a lot of time. I wouldn't mind having more managing experience, so I hope I still gain something from this experience.
Thank you so much again, Hermit TL.
These folks are from India. Obviously, bidding for a project beyond their means is an issue in itself, but the main problem has been that they constantly pull their sleazy hustler shtick in a legitimate business transaction. At any rate, the employer seems to start realizing, again, you get what you pay for, so that's a good side.
I'm thinking of hiring two programmers. One for JavaScript, and the other obviously for backend. CSS, I can fine-tune. Probably locally this time though. We already have wasted a lot of time. I wouldn't mind having more managing experience, so I hope I still gain something from this experience.
Thank you so much again, Hermit TL.