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Newb City

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:10 pm
by Gen-ik
Am I the only one getting fed up with every other post in the PHP forum sounding like.. " I want to do this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, but I don't know anything about PHP " ?

Newbs seem to be breeding like rabbits at the moment and this whole place is turning into Newb City!

To the Admins..... can we PLEEEEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEE have a new forum area for the more 'advanced' PHP questions (questions not theory)?


Yes I know we were (or still are) all PHP newbies at some point but this forum has never been like this before..... it's newb overkill.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:00 pm
by Cruzado_Mainfrm
:wink: good idea

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:13 pm
by d3ad1ysp0rk
you could always have a newbie php board

then a regular one

and a theory one

because im not sure where'd i fall (newbie or "advanced" :P)

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:47 pm
by volka
Am I the only one getting fed up with every other post in the PHP forum sounding like.. " I want to do this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, but I don't know anything about PHP " ?
I'm still fighting the feeling but have to admit I've been rubbing my eyes from time to time lately ;)

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:36 pm
by Gen-ik
volka wrote:I'm still fighting the feeling but have to admit I've been rubbing my eyes from time to time lately ;)
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that everyone on the forum should be a PHP God, and while I know a fare amount of PHP I'm still learning like everyone else is, but I think it's time to start drawing a line in the sand somewhere.

Popping into the PHP-general forum to find 30 new topics all ending with ".. but I don't have a clue about PHP" is a real turn off.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:47 pm
by BDKR
How many of you DID have a clue when you first started with any programming language. Saying they don't have a clue is one thing. Being jerks about it is something else. "Write this for me..." is the one that we should be wary of.

Besides, doesn't this seem to indicate that the use of PHP is growing?

What about the when two or three people try to nudge a guy or gal in the right direction by making suggestions, giving hints, or admonishing them to use the manual only to have someone later on just type out an answer? That's no help! It doesn't help the person with the question one bit because it provides them no motivation to learn on there own.

Ours is a meritocracy. Noob's don't have a clue what that means. Let's teach them that the more they research on their own and try to figure things out on their own, the stronger a coder they will become and the greater respect they are likely to gain over time.

Let's not become less than accomodating. :)

Cheers,
BDKR

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:09 pm
by McGruff
If we're getting lots of new members I'd see that as a sign of how successful the forum is - they're all very welcome as far as I'm concerned.

New forums can be created if there is a need - but I don't know how we'd make this kind of split. To me, the normal forum is all about "vocabulary" ie how to use native functions or fix simple script problems. Whether that's a question about register globals or something trickier like permissions or sessions it's essentially all the same. I'm not sure how we could classify some of these issues as elementary and others not.

Perhaps a bunch of new beginner tutorials, or just emphasising the ones that already exist on this and other sites, might head some of these queries of at the pass.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:05 pm
by Gen-ik
McGruff wrote:If we're getting lots of new members I'd see that as a sign of how successful the forum is - they're all very welcome as far as I'm concerned.

New forums can be created if there is a need - but I don't know how we'd make this kind of split. To me, the normal forum is all about "vocabulary" ie how to use native functions or fix simple script problems. Whether that's a question about register globals or something trickier like permissions or sessions it's essentially all the same. I'm not sure how we could classify some of these issues as elementary and others not.

Perhaps a bunch of new beginner tutorials, or just emphasising the ones that already exist on this and other sites, might head some of these queries of at the pass.

Personally I think something needs to be rearranged as far as the forum areas go.... with such an increase in members having one main area (php-general) is going to get very messy very quickly, and this may lead to a 'migration' of some of the more regular/pro PHP programmers.

Here's a suggestion...

Drop the PHP-Normal area and replace it with PHP-Novice (for the really basic/starter/newb stuff) and PHP-Pro (for the more advanced users). You might also rename PHP-Advanced to PHP-Theory just to make things a bit clearer in regards to what it contains.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:20 pm
by m3mn0n
BDKR, I couldn't agree with you more.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:59 pm
by JAM
McGruff wrote:... <cut> ...
Perhaps a bunch of new beginner tutorials, or just emphasising the ones that already exist on this and other sites, might head some of these queries of at the pass.
Personally I can devote time to write tutorials for beginners, but; Will they get read?

People do not read stickies, and that is a fact seen often... What would PHP-Novice Tutorials help? (Abit harsh perhaps, but you get my point.)

The [man="php"]ref[/man] topic discussed in another thread seems more and more as a good idea.

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:26 am
by twigletmac
Unfortunately, the only thing that will happen if we have a newbie forum is that more people will cross-post. Plus you get that whole thing of deciding what's simple and what's complicated and those people who think just because it's hard for them it must be an advanced question.

Totally agree with BDKR about posting full solutions and McGruff about new users being a good thing. Yes it's frustrating when you get these newbie questions, but if they end with 'and I know nothing whatsoever about PHP' post them links to tutorial sites. It's next to impossible to help someone who doesn't have a tiny grasp of what they are trying to do and how it can be accomplished. Admonish the people who then try and give them a full solution before seeing any effort on the OP's part.

Mac

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:24 am
by phice
Indeed, most people will say "I dont know where to post this!" and post in both forums.

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:48 am
by itsmani1
good ...........

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:04 am
by twigletmac
itsmani1 wrote:good ...........
useful comment :roll:

Mac

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:50 am
by JAM
twigletmac wrote:...
Admonish the people who then try and give them a full solution before seeing any effort on the OP's part.

Mac
I seriously thought of posting solutions since the original post and decided to put more effort into showing the path rather than showing the solution.
When a user asking the question for the 3rd time in a thread replies "I still don't understand it..." most often you know that he/she does not indeed wish to learn yota. Then I post a solution, or close by, just to get rid of him and so that those actually searching the forum might find an answer for the same problem.

A suggestion I have is that the mod's take a more strict approach, locking topics when the obvious answer is "See the manual first about X, please.".
Upon locking more posts in these cases, the point would (hopefully) get thru.