Server: Windows v Linux
Moderator: General Moderators
-
d3ad1ysp0rk
- Forum Donator
- Posts: 1661
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 8:31 pm
- Location: Maine, USA
Server: Windows v Linux
Which do you prefer?
i can't make a decision truthfully... windows is great for gui lovers, and linux is great for security.
since most of my apps are written for windows driven servers, i go with winblows...
dunno.. if linux woudl work on their gui man, i'd stay with linux. but gnome and kde are pretty much useless right now... so i'm voting windows as much as i hate to..
since most of my apps are written for windows driven servers, i go with winblows...
dunno.. if linux woudl work on their gui man, i'd stay with linux. but gnome and kde are pretty much useless right now... so i'm voting windows as much as i hate to..
well, it's gonna take you about 10 days to understand the gui first of all. then, trying to setup your security is a nightmare since the administration tools ( that i saw ) only gives you so much you can do (like you have trouble closing ports), you are limited to the applications you can run under it ( meaning #1, you can't play games, #2, you can't use windows applications, etc ), then you have the tedious problem of your peripherials ( laser mice do not work under linux, 3d sound cards do not work under linux, etc ). i don't claim to be a linux guru, but a few days of linux's inability to meet my demands threw me off.
don't get me wrong.. if i were setting up a web server, mail server, or something i wanted to make secure, linux is the way to go. but for normal home users that want to try and make it the operating system of choice, well.. there just isn't enough features and compatability issues to warrant switching over..
don't get me wrong.. if i were setting up a web server, mail server, or something i wanted to make secure, linux is the way to go. but for normal home users that want to try and make it the operating system of choice, well.. there just isn't enough features and compatability issues to warrant switching over..
-
d3ad1ysp0rk
- Forum Donator
- Posts: 1661
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 8:31 pm
- Location: Maine, USA
I've never really used a Windows server since all the hosts I've been on are running a Linux box. But I run a Windows server for my localhost. I hate it that I can't CHMOD things <_<. Overall, I'm still going for Linux. I have my RedHat on a dual boot, but I can't use internet with it so until then I'm on a XP Pro <_<.
-Nay
-Nay
Not at all. The GUI for most major distro's matches that of Windows/Mac. Heck, my little borther, 6 at the time, was able to use Linux without breaking a sweat. Heck, he came back to me showing ME thing he had found on his own. And he usually used Windows.infolock wrote:well, it's gonna take you about 10 days to understand the gui first of all.
It's just like setting up security for Windows. If you don't know how to do it, you won't know how to do it. I feel the same way about Windows. Indeed, it bothers me that Windows doesn't come with basic secure tools, like SSHinfolock wrote:then, trying to setup your security is a nightmare since the administration tools ( that i saw ) only gives you so much you can do (like you have trouble closing ports),
That's the same thing for any OS. I can't run several applications I need on Windows.infolock wrote:you are limited to the applications you can run under it
Hrm? You can't? Oh, for sure, you can't run every single game out there, but there are dozens of games that run on Linux. Unreal Tournament, Enemy Terrority, Neverwinter Nights, etc.infolock wrote:( meaning #1, you can't play games,
Yes you can. You can run many Windows Applications, including Microsoft Office and Photoshop. Of course, there are a lot of comparable applications for Linux. For example, Open Office replaces MS Office (yes, it does), and the GIMP is an excellent tool for doing web graphics, and a wonderful replacement for Photoshop. Indeed, their are features in the GIMP that Photoshop doesn't have. For example, the right click menu is a wonderful idea, and makes my life a lot easier.infolock wrote:#2, you can't use windows applications
You have the same problem with Windows. For example, I can't get my HP Deskjet working on Windows, though it works flawlessly under Linux. Nor was I ever able to get my Sound Audigy working completely under Windows. And Windows didn't have drivers for an older video card of mine, though Linux handled it fine. Goes both ways.infolock wrote:then you have the tedious problem of your peripherials
That's not true. Laser mice work perfectly fine in Linux.infolock wrote:laser mice do not work under linux
Or Windows. =)infolock wrote:3d sound cards do not work under linux
I am sorry that you feel that way. My questions to you are which distro did you choose to use, and did you actually have someone with you to help you out? These are important things, because 1) the wrong distro will make the experience a poor one at best, and 2) having someone there is always a good idea. Heck, people wouldn't use Windows if so many of their friends didn't barely understand it. What does the average person do when they can't get somethign working? They call up "Bob," that Windows user who knows just enough to be useful. Your at that stage where you need a Bob yourself. Maybe you should check for a local Linux User Group in your area.infolock wrote:i don't claim to be a linux guru, but a few days of linux's inability to meet my demands threw me off.
Compatibility issues for Hardware is a non-issue. I have had more problems in the last year with Windows supporting hardware than Linux. Obviously, your distro of choice is important.infolock wrote:don't get me wrong.. if i were setting up a web server, mail server, or something i wanted to make secure, linux is the way to go. but for normal home users that want to try and make it the operating system of choice, well.. there just isn't enough features and compatability issues to warrant switching over..
As far as features are concerned, I beg to differ. For the average user, you can do many things easier and better with linux:
Easier software installations on Linux.
More software selection (because most are free)
No email viruses.
Better support for MS Office files out of the box then Windows. (Seriously, no joke)
More productivity out of the box.
Better support for all things web (IE 6 is over 2 years behind, and basically sucks).
These are just a few of the many features Linux offers. For sure, Linux is perfect on the desktop. But having used it for the past year, and then having tried to install Windows for Piera, I discovered it's as polished as Windows, if not moreso.
I have to agree with infolock on some things he mentioned.
There is so much room for user friendly development and presentation as far as using it as a desktop is concerned. For the total n00b linux is a mind boggle. But like anything once you get over the initial learning curve it's all smooth sailing.
I did like the fact that my redhat distro didn't even require me to load a single driver. It was like install, configure settings, and presto; al my devices, besides my web cam -_-, were ready for use. Even my 10/100 card and printer!
There is so much room for user friendly development and presentation as far as using it as a desktop is concerned. For the total n00b linux is a mind boggle. But like anything once you get over the initial learning curve it's all smooth sailing.
I did like the fact that my redhat distro didn't even require me to load a single driver. It was like install, configure settings, and presto; al my devices, besides my web cam -_-, were ready for use. Even my 10/100 card and printer!
Yup, same with SUSE 9.0. I was just the DJ, everything was easily reckognised etc. Their YAST (Yet Another Setup Tool) is really amazing. And no, I am not in their pockets, just really like their product.I did like the fact that my redhat distro didn't even require me to load a single driver. It was like install, configure settings, and presto; al my devices, besides my web cam -_-, were ready for use. Even my 10/100 card and printer!
What I find the greatest argument pro Linux is that you can integrate a host of extremely powerful applications quite easily into Apache - and for free.
Hehe, rereading my last post, I went a bit to zealot for my tastes, so I apologize.
Anyways, still, the point is rather simple:
Linux isn't difficult to use for a n00b. No more difficult thatn Windows. It's just different. Different doesn't mean it's difficult, it just means you have to learn it.
People seem to forget that when they first used Windows, they didn't know how to do everything. Rather, they had to learn. But since it came with the computer they bough, they pretty much had to learn it.
I mean, seriously, having to help my partners every day with simple things on the computer reminds me how difficult computing in general is, and that Linux isn't any more difficult, it just does things differently.
Now, one can say "Well, why doesn't Linux try to emulate Windows to make it easier for newbs to switch." But that is the wrong way to go, IMO. I didn't switch to Linux because it worked just like Windows, I switched to Linux because once I learned it, things were much more intuitive, and much easier. So sure, a newb might be confused about certain things. Indeed, they will say "Hey, why doesn't Linux support Dreamweaver, I need Dreamweaver and Photoshop!"
I ask a different question: "Why doesn't Macromedia or Adobe do more to support Linux." I don't need Dreamweaver or Photoshop, as their are comparable tools on Linux. Some not as powerful, but there are good, solid replacements.
Being a Gnome guy, I can't stand the way Windows handles things. Out of the box, Windows is very unproductive. Gnome has nice, easy to use features that are a PITA to replicate in Windows. For sure, it took time to learn all these features, but I did the same thing in Windows.
So for those people who spent all that time learning Windows, moving to Linux can be a problem. They try to do something, and rather than learn the new way, they complain that Linux doesn't do this, like in Windows. In Windows it was so easy to do "X, Y, or Z." But in reality, it wasn't easy to do. You were just used to doing in the hard way. The new way could be better, but since it's new, you have to learn it.
And while I compared Windows to Linux here, the same can be said about most things in general. And something we should all remember. Before making the choice to merely emulate, ask yourself if your emulating because it was a good feature, or because you are just used to it.
Anyways, still, the point is rather simple:
Linux isn't difficult to use for a n00b. No more difficult thatn Windows. It's just different. Different doesn't mean it's difficult, it just means you have to learn it.
People seem to forget that when they first used Windows, they didn't know how to do everything. Rather, they had to learn. But since it came with the computer they bough, they pretty much had to learn it.
I mean, seriously, having to help my partners every day with simple things on the computer reminds me how difficult computing in general is, and that Linux isn't any more difficult, it just does things differently.
Now, one can say "Well, why doesn't Linux try to emulate Windows to make it easier for newbs to switch." But that is the wrong way to go, IMO. I didn't switch to Linux because it worked just like Windows, I switched to Linux because once I learned it, things were much more intuitive, and much easier. So sure, a newb might be confused about certain things. Indeed, they will say "Hey, why doesn't Linux support Dreamweaver, I need Dreamweaver and Photoshop!"
I ask a different question: "Why doesn't Macromedia or Adobe do more to support Linux." I don't need Dreamweaver or Photoshop, as their are comparable tools on Linux. Some not as powerful, but there are good, solid replacements.
Being a Gnome guy, I can't stand the way Windows handles things. Out of the box, Windows is very unproductive. Gnome has nice, easy to use features that are a PITA to replicate in Windows. For sure, it took time to learn all these features, but I did the same thing in Windows.
So for those people who spent all that time learning Windows, moving to Linux can be a problem. They try to do something, and rather than learn the new way, they complain that Linux doesn't do this, like in Windows. In Windows it was so easy to do "X, Y, or Z." But in reality, it wasn't easy to do. You were just used to doing in the hard way. The new way could be better, but since it's new, you have to learn it.
And while I compared Windows to Linux here, the same can be said about most things in general. And something we should all remember. Before making the choice to merely emulate, ask yourself if your emulating because it was a good feature, or because you are just used to it.
I go for Linux both Server (of course) and Desktop.
I've already had this same feeling as infolock. I hated Linux. Years ago I almost threw the Slackware 4.0 2 cds set outside my window to watch they fall on the neighbor's garden, almost: I do care about and respect my neighborhood. I put them inside my lowest closet's drawer, in other words: hidden. Then couple months latter I tried it again and got a bit less bored but I did'nt use it many times: no Internet = no fun.
4 maybe 5 months later I came into learning PHP and web development, including server setup. I dicided to learn it all on Linux. I chose Debian and use it since then. Nowadays I develop on Java, Python and PHP under Linux and use it for everything.
My home's print, file, internet-sharing + firewall (a router), backup, database, names, DHCP, and intranet server, is an AMD TB 800 MHz powered by Debian 3.0r2 stable. It fits all of my family's needs. It is up 24 hours a day and I paid nothing for all of this, zero, nada (except for hardware, of course).
About distros I recommend one of three: Debian, Slackware or SuSE.
Regards,
Fëanor.
I've already had this same feeling as infolock. I hated Linux. Years ago I almost threw the Slackware 4.0 2 cds set outside my window to watch they fall on the neighbor's garden, almost: I do care about and respect my neighborhood. I put them inside my lowest closet's drawer, in other words: hidden. Then couple months latter I tried it again and got a bit less bored but I did'nt use it many times: no Internet = no fun.
4 maybe 5 months later I came into learning PHP and web development, including server setup. I dicided to learn it all on Linux. I chose Debian and use it since then. Nowadays I develop on Java, Python and PHP under Linux and use it for everything.
My home's print, file, internet-sharing + firewall (a router), backup, database, names, DHCP, and intranet server, is an AMD TB 800 MHz powered by Debian 3.0r2 stable. It fits all of my family's needs. It is up 24 hours a day and I paid nothing for all of this, zero, nada (except for hardware, of course).
I agree with Jason in many aspects. If the dumb Word can't open your .doc file, you call your friend or the son of your neighbor, he knows what to do. Linux lacks on this 'underground support'. It's not that easy to find someone who can help you. You cand find this support on the many forums, lists and kbases on the www.jason wrote:having someone there is always a good idea.
About distros I recommend one of three: Debian, Slackware or SuSE.
Regards,
Fëanor.
Very good points, Jason.
I'm sure if IBM, Dell, Gateway, and others packaged Linux instead of Windows, everyone who purchased a PC would be very proficient at it, thus more community support in learning. Like you said, they would be forced to learn it. BTW By community support I don't just mean web forums and mailing lists. I'm talking TV shows (which I watch all the time about windows), books, newspaper sections, magazines, etc, etc, etc. Okay I just lost my train of thought so I'm going to end off this message with a smilie then slowly back away from my computer...
I'm sure if IBM, Dell, Gateway, and others packaged Linux instead of Windows, everyone who purchased a PC would be very proficient at it, thus more community support in learning. Like you said, they would be forced to learn it. BTW By community support I don't just mean web forums and mailing lists. I'm talking TV shows (which I watch all the time about windows), books, newspaper sections, magazines, etc, etc, etc. Okay I just lost my train of thought so I'm going to end off this message with a smilie then slowly back away from my computer...