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Algorithms +Data Structures = Programs (Niklaus Wirth, 1975)

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:38 pm
by jeanloui
(poll answer)

Two yeras ago, I wrote to Niklaus Wirth to ask him the same, cause I'm simple mind and I think that even making an omelette is executing a program.

I was asking it cause a problem of the intellectual property of a website.

In Spain you can not register a website as a "program" cause it has not "the source code" (sic)... (it has, indeed: pure HTML !)
You must register a website as "images" (artwork) or/and "text" (literature).
I dont know if someone can understand "0001010010010010" as "literature"... (very advanced !)

But Wirth wrote me back that HTML (under his opinion) was NOT a program :(

He does not give me further explanations (I think he didn't wish to be in the middle of a legal quarrel, nor me!)

I know that HTML is ONLY a Markup Language (an encoding system used to indicate how a document should be formatted), and really with very "poor" features...

But the more I think on it, the more I belive IT IS STILL A PROGRAM (and no one of the previous NOs makes me think the opposite)

Is the DNA a program?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:39 pm
by d3ad1ysp0rk
It's never really compiled is it?
It's like saying a book is a program, since that's basically what the browser does, it reads your HTML.

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:13 pm
by Cruzado_Mainfrm
LiLpunkSkateR wrote:It's never really compiled is it?
It's like saying a book is a program, since that's basically what the browser does, it reads your HTML.
i didn;t get your statement 8O
anyways, i don;t think html is a program or can be considered a program, since a program follows a series of steps and conditions(algorithm), to get a desired result or accomplishment.

Turing Machines

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:17 pm
by jeanloui
LiLpunkSkateR wrote:It's never really compiled is it?
To be "Compiled" is not necessary for being a "program".
The Turing Machines executed programs and there was no "compilation" at all.

http://math.hws.edu/TMCM/java/labs/xTur ... neLab.html

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:27 pm
by jeanloui
Cruzado_Mainfrm wrote:a program follows a series of steps and conditions (algorithm), to get a desired result or accomplishment.
HTML is read by the browser "step by step".
The browser parses a text, a link or an image when he finds the tag.

The algoritm is the hability of the HTML writer for making the page appear as he wants...

This page could be HTML-coded in another way (another algorithm), and the result could be the same.

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~bvz/bvz/classes/ ... exity.html

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:42 pm
by Cruzado_Mainfrm
if u say so...

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:18 pm
by Draco_03
Hey first take your question from the top :
DEFINE program

define

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:31 pm
by jeanloui
Draco_03 wrote:Hey first take your question from the top :
DEFINE program
We began with

Code: Select all

Algorithms+Data Structures=Programs (Wirth)
but we can now

a) analyze -an discuss- each item in that formula
a.1) try to complete the formula with something like "...to acomplish something" (meta data?).
b) propose others definitions
c) close the topic

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:59 pm
by Draco_03
Okay
algorithm ----> a precise rule (or set of rules) specifying how to solve some problem
2nd definition ----> A detailed sequence of actions to perform to accomplish some task

Data structure (obvious)

So we know that HTML actually does structure data.. since data is a type of information.
but that s it.. it doesn t actually use any algorythm.. (as the proper definition)

so we must actually think that html is not a program..

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:44 pm
by jeanloui
Draco_03 wrote: it doesn t actually use any algorythm
Not, only in some interpretations of your definition.

But I am thinking algorithm as a "short cut" for accomplish results that can not be reached -may be never- with a simple formula or an absolute structured calculation (this is not MY definition, only an argument).

All simulations are made with algorithms: and the simulation is not an "exact" result.

So (as I wrote) I consider here the hability of the HTML writer IS an algorthm for the "most acurate" display of a page with a so "poor" language and so fool interpret (the amount of rough and evolving browsers)