Page 1 of 2

DVD Writers

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:13 am
by Toneboy
The Mrs is thinking of getting me a DVD writer for my birthday. Lucky me. :)

However to be honest with you I'm wondering if it might end up being a bit gimmicky, something which I don't get much use out of. I've got a CD writer which I use a lot, but I don't know if I'll get the same amount of use out of a DVD writer.

Another thing I'm wondering about is whether or not it will increase the need for another hard drive. If you compile your own DVDs (something I would definitely be interested in) how much disk space do you find yourself using? (I've got about 8Gb of space left on my main drive at the moment.)

I'd be interested in all experiences/opinions on the issue. Thanks.

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:19 am
by malcolmboston
if you are getting one make sure you get a +/- one.

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:29 am
by JayBird
Definatley get a Pioneer 107. THE best writer at the moment, and you can get them for around £80 at them moment.

This is the drive of choice for my associates in the DVD Piracy...i mean backup...world 8)

What you gonna be buring? Just backing up data, or backing up your movies?

Mark

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:37 am
by malcolmboston
bech wrote: This is the drive of choice for my associates in the DVD Piracy...i mean backup...world
this is what really matters when buying burning hardware / software

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:07 am
by JayBird
Basically, what i am saying is that i know some poeple that are burning 18 hours a day a producing a couple of thousand "backup" DVD's per week.

This is the most reliable and compatible drive of the moment, and i no-way endorse the activities of the people burning this quantity of illegal merchandise.

Oh, and use discs with the G04 dye.

Mark

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:53 am
by Pyrite
I'm actually thinking of getting this Lite-On one, it burns regular CD-R's at 40x (the Pioneer only does 24x).

http://www.computerpartsusa.com/product.php?ID=1013

Oh, and Walmart carries it for about $99 USD .

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:00 am
by JayBird
Pyrite wrote:I'm actually thinking of getting this Lite-On one, it burns regular CD-R's at 40x (the Pioneer only does 24x).

http://www.computerpartsusa.com/product.php?ID=1013

Oh, and Walmart carries it for about $99 USD .
You may need the hacked firmware for that writer mate to be able to burn DVD's at the speeds stated.

Mark

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:01 am
by Pyrite
Really? Know somebody that has that one or something? Or a site that tells you that?

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:34 am
by JayBird
i can't give you a link mate cos it is info from an underground piracy forum, but poeple that have had this writer have not been very happy with it.

IT WILL NOT WORK WITH THOSE DISKS LABELED AS NOT SUITABLE FOR NEC 1300, or any Mirror dvd-r.

Seriously mate, go with something tried and tested. The Pioneer 107 is the best.

Mark

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:19 am
by kettle_drum
Ive got an external dvd writer from LaCie which is a Pioneer 115 and works like a dream. Burns a full dvd in about 25 mins and works great on both my mac and pc.

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:25 am
by Pyrite
Is it USB 2.0 or Firewire? Cause I have a laptop and am looking for an external DVD burner as well. Also, what is the difference between DVD +/- R and DVD-RAM ?

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:33 am
by malcolmboston
there is basically 2 types of DVD disc i believe + and -

+/- recorders can record them both

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:46 am
by AznFuman
wat is a +/- dvd?
one holds more?

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:52 am
by JayBird
DVD-R
DVD-R uses organic dye technology, like CD-R, and is compatible with most DVD drives and players. First-generation capacity was 3.95 billion bytes, later extended to 4.7 billion bytes. Matching the 4.7G capacity of DVD-ROM was crucial for desktop DVD production. In early 2000 the format was split into an "authoring" version and a "general" version. The general version, intended for home use, writes with a cheaper 650-nm laser, the same as DVD-RAM. DVD-R(A) is intended for professional development and uses a 635-nm laser. DVD-R(A) discs are not writable in DVD-R(G) recorders, and vice-versa, but both kinds of discs are readable in most DVD players and drives. The main differences, in addition to recording wavelength, are that DVD-R(G) uses decrementing pre-pit addresses, a pre-stamped (version 1.0) or pre-recorded (version 1.1) control area, CPRM (see 1.11), and allows double-sided discs. A third version for "special authoring," allowing protected movie content to be recorded on DVD-R media, was considered but will probably not happen.

Pioneer released 3.95G DVD-R(A) 1.0 drives in October 1997 (about 6 months late) for $17,000. New 4.7G DVD-R(A) 1.9 drives appeared in limited quantities in May 1999 (about 6 months late) for $5,400. Version 2.0 drives became available in fall 2000. Version 1.9 drives can be upgraded to 2.0 via downloaded software. (This removes the 2,500 hour recording limit.) New 2.0 [4.7G] media (with newer copy protection features), can only be written in 2.0 drives. 1.9 media (and old 1.0 [3.95G] media) can still be written in 2.0 drives. Version 1.0 (3.95G) discs are still available, and can be recorded in Pioneer DVD-R(A) drives. Although 3.95G discs hold less data, they are more compatible with existing players and drives.

Pioneer's DVR-A03 DVD-R(G) drive was released in May 2001 for under $1000. By August it was available for under $700, and by February 2002 it was under $400. The same drive (model DVR-103) was built into certain Apple Macs and Compaq PCs. Many companies now produce DVD-RW drives, all of which write CD-R/RW. As of fall 2002 DVD-RW drives are selling for under $200. Most DVD-RAM drives also write DVD-R discs, some also write DVD-RW discs. A few new drives write both DVD-R/RW and DVD+R/RW.

Pioneer released a professional DVD video recorder in 2002. It sells for about $3000 and provides component video (YPbPr) and 1394 (DV) inputs (along with s-video and composite). It has 1-hour (10 Mbps) and 2-hour (5 Mbps) recording modes, and includes a 2-channel Dolby Digital audio encoder.

Price for blank DVD-R(A) discs is $10 to $25 (down from the original $50), although cheaper discs seem to have more compatibility problems. Price for blank DVD-R(G) discs is $5 to $15. Blank media is made by CMC Magnetics, Fuji, Hitachi Maxell, Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Pioneer, Ricoh, Ritek, Taiyo Yuden, Sony, TDK, Verbatim, Victor, and others.

The DVD-R 1.0 format is standardized in ECMA-279. Andy Parsons at Pioneer has written a white paper that explains the differences between DVD-R(G) and DVD-R(A).

It's possible to submit DVD-R(A) and DVD-R(G) discs for replication, with limitations. First, not all replicators will accept submissions on DVD-R. Second, there can be problems with compatibility and data loss when using DVD-R, so it's best to generate a checksum that the replicator can verify. Third, DVD-R does not directly support CSS, regions, and Macrovision. Support for this is being added to DVD-R(A) with the cutting master format (CMF), which stores DDP information in the control area, but it will take a while before most authoring software and replicators support CMF.

DVD-RW
DVD-RW (formerly DVD-R/W and also briefly known as DVD-ER) is a phase-change erasable format. Developed by Pioneer based on DVD-R, using similar track pitch, mark length, and rotation control, DVD-RW is playable in many DVD drives and players. (Some drives and players are confused by DVD-RW media's lower reflectivity into thinking it's a dual-layer disc. In other cases the drive or player doesn't recognize the disc format code and doesn't even try to read the disc. Simple firmware upgrades can solve both problems.) DVD-RW uses groove recording with address info on land areas for synchronization at write time (land data is ignored during reading). Capacity is 4.7 billion bytes. DVD-RW discs can be rewritten about 1,000 times.

In December 1999, Pioneer released DVD-RW home video recorders in Japan. The units cost 250,000 yen (about $2,500) and blank discs cost 3,000 yen (about $30). Since the recorder used the new DVD-VR (video recording) format, the discs wouldn't play in existing players (the discs were physically compatible, but not logically compatible). Recording time varies from 1 hour to 6 hours, depending on quality. A new version of the recorder was later released that also records on DVD-R(G) discs and can use DVD-Video format for better compatibility with existing players. Pioneer released a third generation of its DVD-RW recorder in Japan in June 2001 for about 198,000 yen (about $1,500). The new model may be released in the U.S. and elsewhere around the end of 2001 or sometime in 2002. Sharp announced a $2,200 DVD-RW recorder, and Zenith (LG) announced a $2,000 DVD-RW recorder, but neither appeared at the end of 2000 as expected. Sharp expects to have a DVD-RW video recorder that costs less than $1,000 by March 2002. TV One announced a DVD-RW video recorder for July 2001 at $3,500 that can also create Video CD discs. Sony will ship a DVD-RW video recorder in Japan in September 2001 for 220,000 yen (about $2,000).

DVD-R(G) drives released in early 2001 by Pioneer (DVR-103 and DVR-A03, priced below $1000) are combination DVD-R/RW drives. The drives also write CD-R and CD-RW discs. DVD-RW disc prices are around $15-$20 (down from the original $30). Blank media is being made by CMC Magnetics, Hitachi Maxell, Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Pioneer, Ricoh, Ritek, Sony, Taiyo Yuden, TDK, Verbatim, Victor, and others.

There are three kinds of DVD-RW discs. All are 4.7G capacity. Version 1.0 discs, rarely found outside of Japan, have an embossed lead-in (to prevent copying of CSS information), which causes compatibility problems. Version 1.1 discs have a pre-recorded lead-in that improves compatibility. Version 1.1 discs also come in a "B" version that carries a unique ID in the BCA for use with CPRM. B-type discs are required when copying certain kinds of protected video. (See 1.11 for more on CPRM; 3.11 for more on BCA.)

Note: The Apple SuperDrive (even with older 1.22 firmware) can write to DVD-RW discs, but not from the iDVD application. You must use a different software utility, such as Toast, to write to DVD-RW discs.


DVD+RW and DVD+R
DVD+RW is an erasable format based on CD-RW technology. It became available in late 2001. DVD+RW is supported by Philips, Sony, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Ricoh, Yamaha, and others. It is not supported by the DVD Forum (even though most of the DVD+RW companies are members), but the Forum has no power to set standards. DVD+RW drives read DVD-ROMs and CDs, and usually read DVD-Rs and DVD-RWs, but do not read or write DVD-RAM discs. DVD+RW drives also write CD-Rs and CD-RWs. DVD+RW discs, which hold 4.7 billion bytes per side, are readable in many existing DVD-Video players and DVD-ROM drives. (They run into the same reflectivity and disc format recognition problems as DVD-RW.)

DVD+RW backers claimed in 1997 that the format would be used only for computer data, not home video, but this was apparently a smokescreen intended to placate the DVD Forum and competitors. The original 1.0 format, which held 3 billion bytes (2.8 gigabytes) per side and was not compatible with any existing players and drives, was abandoned in late 1999.

The DVD+RW format uses phase-change media with a high-frequency wobbled groove that allows it to eliminate linking sectors. This, plus the option of no defect management, allows DVD+RW discs to be written in a way that is compatible with many existing DVD readers. The DVD+RW specification allows for either CLV format for sequential video access (read at CAV speeds by the drive) or CAV format for random access, but CAV mode is not supported by any current hardware. DVD+R discs can only be recorded in CLV mode. Only CLV-formatted discs can be read in standard DVD drives and players. DVD+RW media can be rewritten about 1,000 times (down from 100,000 times in the original 1.0 version).

DVD+R is a write-once variation of DVD+RW, which appeared in mid 2002. It's a dye-based medium, like DVD-R, so it has similar compatibility as DVD-R. Original DVD+RW drives did not fulfill the promise of a simple upgrade to add DVD+R writing support, so they have to be replaced with newer models. The original Philips DVD+RW players, on the other hand, can be customer-upgraded to write +R discs.

Philips announced a DVD+RW home video recorder for late 2001. The Philips recorder uses the DVD-Video format, so discs will play in many existing players. HP announced a $600 DVD+RW drive and $16 DVD+RW discs to be available in September 2001. HP's drive reads DVDs at 8x and CDs at 32x, and writes to DVD+RW at 2.4x, CD-R at 12x, and CD-RW at 10x. Sony announced a $600 DVD+RW/CD-RW drive in October 2001.

DVD+RW media is being produced by CMC Magnetics, Hewlett-Packard, MCC/Verbatim, Memorex, Mitsubishi, Optodisc, Philips, Ricoh, Ritek, and Sony.

DVD-RAM
DVD-RAM, with an initial storage capacity of 2.58 billion bytes, later increased to 4.7, uses phase-change dual (PD) technology with some magneto-optic (MO) features mixed in. DVD-RAM is the best suited of the writable DVD formats for use in computers, because of its defect management and zoned CLV format for rapid access. However, it's not compatible with most drives and players (because of defect management, reflectivity differences, and minor format differences). A wobbled groove is used to provide clocking data, with marks written in both the groove and the land between grooves. The grooves and pre-embossed sector headers are molded into the disc during manufacturing. Single-sided DVD-RAM discs come with or without cartridges. There are two types of cartridges: type 1 is sealed, type 2 allows the disc to be removed. Discs can only be written while in the cartridge. Double-sided DVD-RAM discs were initially available in sealed cartridges only, but now come in removable versions as well. Cartridge dimensions are 124.6 mm x 135.5 mm x 8.0 mm. DVD-RAM can be rewritten more than 100,000 times, and the discs are expected to last at least 30 years.

DVD-RAM 1.0 drives appeared in June 1998 (about 6 months late) for $500 to $800, with blank discs at about $30 for single-sided and $45 for double-sided. Disc prices were under $20 by August 1998, and retail drive prices were under $250 by November 1999. The first DVD-ROM drive to read DVD-RAM discs was released by Panasonic in 1999 (SR-8583, 5x DVD-ROM, 32x CD). Hitachi's GD-5000 drive, released in late 1999, also reads DVD-RAM discs. Blank DVD-RAM media is manufactured by CMC Magnetics, Hitachi Maxell, Eastman Kodak, Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Ritek, TDK, and others.

The spec for DVD-RAM version 2.0, with a capacity of 4.7 billion bytes per side, was published in October 1999. The first drives appeared in June 2000 at about the same price as DVD-RAM 1.0 drives. Single-sided discs were priced around $25, and double-sided discs were around $30. DVD-RAM 2.0 also specifies 8-cm discs and cartridges for portable uses such as digital camcorders. Future DVD-RAM discs may use a contrast enhancement layer and a thermal buffer layer to achieve higher density.

Samsung and C-Cube made a technology demonstration (not a product announcement) in October 1999 of a DVD-RAM video recorder using the new DVD-VR format (see DVD-RW section above for more about DVD-VR). Panasonic demonstrated a $3,000 DVD-RAM video recorder at CES in January 2000. It appeared in the U.S. in September for $4,000 (model DMR-E10). At the beginning of 2001, Hitachi and Panasonic released DVD camcorders that use small DVD-RAM discs. The instant access and on-the-fly editing and deleting capabilities of the DVD camcorders are impressive. Panasonic's 2nd-generation DVD-RAM video recorder appearing in October 2001 for $1,500 also writes to DVD-R discs.

The DVD-RAM 1.0 format is standardized in ECMA-272 and ECMA-273.

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:55 am
by JayBird
Sorry for the ammount of info, but it's there if you are interested.

Basically, on paper, +R is the best format, but the most widely used is the -R format? Why i am not sure, but i think reliability and cost has a lot to do with it.

Mark