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wheres the $$$??

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:32 am
by Jade
Hey guys,

How do you charge people? I think it'd be interesting to see how much you charge and specifically how you charge for things. I was recently looking at a web design forum and they were talking about not taking design projects under 10k. Does anyone know how you go about getting projects like that??!! I know there's more involved in design...but I just want to see where you all stand programming $$ wise.

Jade

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:40 am
by feyd

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:44 am
by Draco_03
What you asking vary SO much from one person to another.
You can't really ask how we charge pople,. Because it depens on A LOT of factor.

What's the clients budget
what does he want (that englobs a lot of thing)
-Database?
-Flash?
-CMS?
-Ecommerce?
-etc etc

The most important thing (to me) it's simply do not charge under what you think your worth.

There's always gonna be 16 years old that would do a whole site in front page without any knowledge in html for 1000$ us (or less)
Thing is, sometimes the client doesn't see what's the difference between this guy and you until a problems come up (wich is after the guy got the contract so it's irrelevent).

So you actually have to explain your price in a way.
Explain the service you offer.

If I have a car problem, I can let my "inexperienced" friend repair it.
Or go to a garage (that will give me a better service and a guarantee).

So mhh yeah.. So Nobody can tell you what to charge without knowing WHAT is the actually project being vcharged.
And even there, an experienced coder/designer/whatever, will charge more then an inexperienced one for obvious reason.

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:34 pm
by twigletmac
My husband's school's got a 16 year old kid who doesn't know what CSS is or PHP, I think he's coding to HTML 3.2 standards, doing their site. Scary thing is apparently a business paid him £250 to do a website for them...

On topic - good clients pay well but most expect to pay the minimum for their website (IME) 'cause you know 16 year olds can do websites so why pay a decent wage?

If you're good, word of mouth will gradually get you better and better projects and more $$$.

Mac

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:46 pm
by Jade
Hmm, okay let me rephrase a little bit. How do you judge what you will charge people?
my rate varies from 50-120 ($US) (4 hr minimum) for hourly depending on the demands of the client, and the urgency/short notice.
I know Feyd said he does something like this. What about you guys?

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:08 pm
by feyd
When I'm doing something "new", I charge less. If I'm doing something totally custom, I charge more. If my work will be owned by the client post project, I charge more. (they hold the copyright and ownership of the code.) If it's a stable job, I'll charge a little less. If I don't like their attitude, I charge more :twisted: ... it's very mood dependant..

no I don't pms:P

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:26 pm
by Draco_03
Like I said..
Vary so much from one erson to another.

Anyways it's all about how you sell yourself. I'm a pretty good talker in interviews, so usually the clients gets out with a sense of security and professionalism, meaning he's willing to pay whatever i'm asknig because he "feels" i'm gonna do the job better then anyone else(wich is not true, it's never true for anyone) but he feel's that way.
Make the person feels "secure"
he will give you the project.

1- DO NOT on any case give a price right away, make a meeting discuss his need and whatever the client says or ask do not give a price. You will look more professional doing so. You need to analyse the need to make appropriate decision.
2- DO NOT make any meeting in your home(my personal experience).
3- DO NOT drink beerl (especially if your a girl) even if the client takes one (that is if you in a cafe)
4- DO NOT make appointement after 18h(unless not possible)
5- DO NOT come late (DUH)
6- AND PLEASE come prepared ( all your question has been written down) and you discussed them one by one.
7- TRY NOT to take too man meetings, because if you don't get stuff done quickly, you'll lose it.
etc etc
then comes all the do and don't (you know, look in eyes, a good hand shake etc etc)

That's MY WAY pof doing stuff, and it fit's me.
Might not fit you....

Oh btw, looking professional means also making proper contract.
Get some help from a lawer the first time you do it. Because just the look of your contract is an important factor.

The more professional you look, the more the price YOU'LL want will seem reasonable for your client.

It's all about the look baby 8)

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:56 pm
by patrikG
Personally, I've always found naming the price of a project the most tricky bit of all. I didn't like at all. Eventually, I started to view money as a commitment towards the service I offered - and hence I worked on my service and on what I thought was professional.

Probably one of the easiest ways of getting a price is asking yourself: what do I want to do with my time, with all those 365 days in a year? Think about all the costs that incur (rent/mortgage, insurance, car, food, drink, holidays, taxes etc.). If need be, get a professional in (accountant) to help you figure those things out. Once you've done that, think of how much you want to work, how much work you can do in a day that realistically is up to your standards. Congratulations: you've calculated your daily rate.

Once you've done that: estimate how much time you think you'll spend on a particular project and multiply it by your daily rate. Now you have calculated how much you would like to charge to have nice, comfy life. Look at the client and think whether they can afford that (always err on the "yes they can"-side) and voila: that's the price. Do make sure that you offer an examplatory service to this client - and they will recommend you. And there is nothing more powerful than word-of-mouth advertising.

From my own experience: never compete on price. That's for market-criers, not you. You compete on service. Money is the client's committment to that service.

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:50 am
by twigletmac
No matter what you do, have a minimum hourly rate that you won't comprimise - there's nothing more depressing than realising you're working for £1 an hour :(

Mac

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:00 pm
by Jade
Lol, thanks a lot for the tips. I've been getting so many programming jobs lately I've had to tell people "i can't program for you until December, or until next year in Feburary." I think one of the ways for me to fix the problem is charge more (without loosing my clients that it). Thanks again for the input. Its hard to decide whats a fair price when you're working for yourself....

Jade

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:18 pm
by m3mn0n
patrikG wrote:Personally, I've always found naming the price of a project the most tricky bit of all. I didn't like at all. Eventually, I started to view money as a commitment towards the service I offered - and hence I worked on my service and on what I thought was professional.

Probably one of the easiest ways of getting a price is asking yourself: what do I want to do with my time, with all those 365 days in a year? Think about all the costs that incur (rent/mortgage, insurance, car, food, drink, holidays, taxes etc.). If need be, get a professional in (accountant) to help you figure those things out. Once you've done that, think of how much you want to work, how much work you can do in a day that realistically is up to your standards. Congratulations: you've calculated your daily rate.

Once you've done that: estimate how much time you think you'll spend on a particular project and multiply it by your daily rate. Now you have calculated how much you would like to charge to have nice, comfy life. Look at the client and think whether they can afford that (always err on the "yes they can"-side) and voila: that's the price. Do make sure that you offer an examplatory service to this client - and they will recommend you. And there is nothing more powerful than word-of-mouth advertising.

From my own experience: never compete on price. That's for market-criers, not you. You compete on service. Money is the client's committment to that service.
Great advice. 8)

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:54 pm
by fractalvibes
Very good series of posts and very informative with good advice. Since I work for a corporation, my compensation is a warm cubicle, plenty of straw on the floor, water, and enough pellets of food in the dispenser.....

fv