Javascript - Love it or Hate it?

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gotDNS
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Post by gotDNS »

No matter what you do, never use Javascript.....see the thing about Javascript is:

Javascript was a relatively good idea, and it can do MANY kool things, but it is also abused, a lot. From pop-up and under ads to pages where the back button doesn't work on one click (it keeps u there)....so it isn't always supported...In earlier versions of AOL, it wasn't supported at all.You want your site to work on every browser it can, where possible...all part of good web development. Do not resort to Javascript.....do it for my Mozilla (I turned of JS...no ads :D no crap :wink:)

later on, -Brian
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hob_goblin
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Post by hob_goblin »

gotDNS wrote:all part of good web development. Do not resort to Javascript.....do it for my Mozilla (I turned of JS...no ads :D no crap :wink:)
you contridict yourself, javascript is a very key part of web development... maybe we should stop using php because it can log our IP? You know, we don't want ads, well we also don't want people stealing information from us... so...
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BDKR
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Post by BDKR »

gotDNS wrote:No matter what you do, never use Javascript.....see the thing about Javascript is:

Javascript was a relatively good idea, and it can do MANY kool things, but it is also abused, a lot. From pop-up and under ads to pages where the back button doesn't work on one click (it keeps u there)....so it isn't always supported...In earlier versions of AOL, it wasn't supported at all.You want your site to work on every browser it can, where possible...all part of good web development. Do not resort to Javascript.....do it for my Mozilla (I turned of JS...no ads :D no crap :wink:)

later on, -Brian
I'm with hob on this one. Just because it's been abused doesn't mean it's bunk! When used in conjunction with server side scripting, it is extremely useful.

On my website, a person has to choose a brand and model of motorcycle to search for. Without using Javascript, the form has to make a trip back to the server after the user has chosen a brand so that he can recieve a list of models associated with that brand. That's crazy! Using JS, a user fills out the form once, and presses the submit button once.

Furthermore, you can include a script that you know will work on a particular browser once you know what broswer the client is using.

I do password hashing and more and more form validation client side.

Later on,
BDKR
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BDKR
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Post by BDKR »

One more thing. I don't know about you poor Windows people, but using Galeon (on linux) I have the option to refuse all that pop-up garbage without shutting off Javascript.

IE is garbage.

BDKR
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gotDNS
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Post by gotDNS »

I think ur mis understanding....Javascript isn't supported by every browser...for instance: I found this site online where the menu's were done with javascript, and It worked nicely in IE....but then i realized it dawned on me that it was done with JS, so I tried it in Mozilla, and i could not navigate the site at all, obviously.

Server-Side can be a bit more leanient...but I still dont suggest it.

And ur whole PHP arguement, Hob....JS is NOT a very key part of web development at all..at ALL. Loggind someone's IP is fair, and it shouldn't be offensive to anyone unless their doing something they shouldn't be. So that's not important. Flooding someone with ads is a different story....when you have 15 pop-up windows that most people have NO idea how to get rid of before MORE pop up, or keep them from hitting the back button to go the last page they were actually at....THAT ISN'T FAIR. It's completely taking advantage of people. Things like that.

Also, If you're suggesting you use SCRIPT tags and NOSCRIPT to be sure that they CAN support JS, thats a better idea, but I still suggest one does not base a major part of a site on it.
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Post by Takuma »

I use very simple JavaScript for navigation but just in case the user's browser does not support Javascript I have a second navigation... I think it's good idea to have a page for Javascript and page for non-JavaScript. I don't think turning off Javascript is that helpfull since many websites is usefull. Stopping pop-ups can be done with many free software available on the net.

Also normal website will not open 15 pop-ups, I haven't seen any normal website that flood users. If there is any pop-ups they only open one or two and that is not a problem.
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gotDNS
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Post by gotDNS »

Hey Takuma, I understand what you mean about having a second navigation method if the DON'T support JS...but if you have that system that'll work in EVERY browser, y not scap the JS one and just use that?

Ex: Say you're a doctor, and you have to go to the emergency room where there is a patient that needs blood transfusion. You have every type of blood in the refrigerator thing...are you going to take a bag of each, or just take a bag of type O blood?

An analogy to help you ^.

later on, -Brian
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volka
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Post by volka »

probably 1 or 2 posts more and this thread is about to be moved to "general discussion" or "client side" ;)
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Takuma
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Post by Takuma »

I take a bad each. Well some browser doesn't support CSS but why does W3C recommend using it? and also if you want to make it so that every user in the world can see your website exactly as you thought you will have to try it out on every browser avaible on the internet which will take your time... :idea:
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gotDNS
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Post by gotDNS »

No. HTML is not a page layout design, it was never intended to make things appealing to the eye. Today though, that is more neccissary to have sites look good, otherwise people wont think to highly of your business, etc. We still have to remember that HTML is not a page layout language. Therefore, websites should be tested in most common browsers, no more. Other than that, its basically out of your hands.

Now JS on the other hand: If your site navigation or another critical aspect around JS, and someone's browser doesn't support it....the site cannot be navigated.....this poses a problem.

later on, -Brian

P.S. Move this post to General Convo
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Post by twigletmac »

This definitely had gotten way off topic, now y'all can bash it out in the General Discussion forum :roll: .

Mac
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Takuma
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Post by Takuma »

If you are using Javascript I think you should say that the site needs Javascript to work, or you can just create a page for those users that has Javascript turned off :twisted:
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Post by MattF »

Im my opinion JS has many great uses, I totally agree with what BDKR says because it saves so much time and has great functional uses. On the other hand people that use javascript like a n00b and start doing loads of alerts, dates in the status bar and loads of other pointless junk just need a good slap :roll:

I mean I prefer JS when it just happens and you don't see it happen, like with the form BDKR uses, I assume it is two select lists with an onSelect on the first list... well a user would never know it was happening so that is good.

Also how is JS used for links apart from mouseovers? I don't see any point in using it for links except maybe for a drop down list...
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Post by hob_goblin »

Javascript is nearly as 'browser' dependant as html... if you use alot of tables your site will probably look like crap in mozilla if you make a mistake or two. 95%+ of browsers support JS, and alot of sites require it. Well, if you turn javascript, you're the one missing out; webmasters could care less about you, one out out billions surfing the net not visiting their site. So? No popups.. Well you're sacrificing about 60% of the internet just for no popups. Get a popup killer... big deal

The advantages of JS severely outweigh its disadvantages.. and people who abuse it; get less hits...if a kid has a no-right click script i simply just dont visit his site anymore.
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gotDNS
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Post by gotDNS »

The advantages of JS severely outweigh its disadvantages..
I have to disagree to this...It's is abused WAY to much today...and I agree it does many useful things, but it does many bad things, and many "cheezy" things. What I think is that a new language, much like JS, should be created, to bring the great features and useful tools of the day to a more respected and, in time, more accepted way of coding.

later on, -Brian
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