Page 1 of 1
Teaching Methodologies - online vs books
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:29 am
by patrikG
edit patrikG: topic split from
viewtopic.php?t=27355
kettle_drum wrote:I really dont think you need to fork out to buy a book to learn php. There are plenty of resources online that can teach you everything from installation to image manipulation. I know you say that you dont like reading stuff on the screen - fair enough - but to really learn php you will need to pratice...which will be using a computer and reading off a screen.
I disagree. If you have no programming experience, you will need a structured approach, covering not just the basics, but development themes. That is what you get from a good PHP book, hard- or softcover.
Using Google to learn a computer language is very much like trying to learn Russian with a dictionary: you learn words, even phrases, and will, at some point, even be able to compose a couple of sentences. But you will never master the language unless with much greater effort compared to having bought and read a "Learn Russian" book.
If you already know how to program and you know what it's about, by all means, there are plenty of things available on the web which are quite good resources.
Otherwise, a McDonald's guide to PHP isn't viable. But it depends entirely what you want to achieve. To learn PHP properly: go buy a book. To get some script that you don't quite understand to work: use google.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:43 am
by kettle_drum
By being thrown in at the deep end, i.e. going straight into attempting to program instead of reading a book is more like being sent to live in Russia, not learning it from google. You pick things up as you go along and learn it from mistakes in a real situation that can be easily remembered and so can be brought to the front of your mind easier.
Reading a book is more like class room learning of russian which as you will know if youve ever learnt a language at school isnt so good, as you learn how the "teacher" knows the language and you dont develop your own style or flair, which leaves the student knowing the language but not being able to use it when a problem arises.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:48 am
by patrikG
kettle_drum wrote:Reading a book is more like class room learning of russian which as you will know if youve ever learnt a language at school isnt so good, as you learn how the "teacher" knows the language and you dont develop your own style or flair, which leaves the student knowing the language but not being able to use it when a problem arises.
With that logic you could argue that going to school is a waste of time anyway since attending school won't teach you be "yourself" but to be what your teachers "are". A train of thought which, I personally, find very faulty.
But let's leave it at this, kettle_drum - I don't want to derail this thread. You're welcome to open another thread to discuss learning methodologies, if you so wish.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:23 pm
by andre_c
although I do think school is a waste of time

, I think it's better to learn from other people's mistakes (a book), before you start making your own.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:43 pm
by kettle_drum
That is what school is though. The teachers teach you what they know, which they have learned from others who have experimented and played around in their field and discovered what the teachers teach. The reason why school isnt completly a waste of time is because of the wide spread of what it teaches, it doesnt just focus on a single subject.
Do you not think people would be better at forign languages if instead of reading text books in a class room for 5 years at high school, they went and lived in that country and spoke the language for real for 3 months.
This is what im getting at, its not the book you read, its how you use the language and then pratice of how to do it, as that is where you learn how to really use it and adapt it to what you need.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:47 pm
by andre_c
sorry for being unclear, what i meant is:
*although* I do think school is a waste of time, when it comes to programming I think it's better to learn from other people's mistakes (a book, a class, school, structured learning), before you start making your own.
I just don't like school.
I speak english as a second language and having some structured learning (a book) on speaking english when I moved to the US was a HUGE help compared to my brothers who struggled a little bit without it.
I think that struggling with php is necessary of course and will eventually make a good programmer. But having some structured learning method at the beginning along with that struggle will speed up that process.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:09 pm
by kettle_drum
But did you not find that the English in the books you read was different to what was spoke and used in the real world? What you learn in a book is how things are ment to be done properly, and a book is only ever limited and so you are only ever shown a few examples of how to do things. Now i think this leaves you at a great disadvantage to somebody who has learnt through trying. As in the real world things arent as easy to follow as they are in books - people speak slang, and there is always a new problem that you dont know how to code.
But its at this point where the knowledge of having played about and tested things for yourself comes into play. Since you have explored and probed the behavour of the language yourself, and made the mistakes of leaving off a ; you know from experience what is wrong and i dont think there is any book that teaches you to think like that.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:20 pm
by andre_c
A book just gives you a base to start from. I'm not saying that it is all that's necessary. I think it's easier to understand deviations from a standard when you have a standard to begin with. By having an idea of how proper english was spoken, it was easier to understand what people said, even though the english they spoke was not exactly the same as I had learned.
If you learn only from your own mistakes, it's very easy to start developing bad habits, and by the time that you've made enough mistakes to realize that they are bad, it's a little hard to move away from them.
I think learning from your own mistakes is a must, but find it very helpful to be guided by a book.