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I just realized I am over organized.

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:33 am
by Heavy
8O
I just realized I am over organized. :?

I almost have more folders than files in my picture archive. I do so because I like things easy to find. But hey... If I just turn my head away from the screen it seems the opposite. Hmmm.

I have been OOPing in PHP for a year now and have come up with a very nice but complex framework that lets the XHTML templates decide what the system should do. It can take a static (XHTML) site and start automating it without any PHP coding, just by some template commands within the XHTML. Nice! It IS nice! It allows me to let any moron do the automation without getting to control the server completely. But it has taken very long to accomplish this... I think it is like four months or something... and the only thing I can do this far on the running web site is to browse some news. I can't even log in yet! I must be either incompetent, a genius, an idiot or a sad case... or all of it... And my boss is WAY too patient! It's like he never cared about result.

The latest dumb thing I have so nicely organized is to split parts of the same system into several CVS modules, since different modules and themes are for different customers/applications - yet everything depends on the same nice framework. Listen now: I did it because I might forget NOT to install a certain module/theme on a site... How likely is that? It has only one profit. It can save me some trouble when updating from CVS.

Then OOP:
PHP isn't really that good for OOP solutions. I mean, structures and reusing code are handled sufficiently well, but any time a script ends, the objects disappear... How useful is that if you like to build an application which keeps data continuously as objects. So we have the session array, and Yes, I love it. But PHP still destroys every object after each execution. But hey, I<-idiot don't think that's a problem, so I UUUUUSE objects and structures from the darkest part of my brain all the time, which makes browsing around in this code a greater pain every day. Wasn't OOP supposed to make it better? Well... Okay, I actually have accomplished things that made a .NET using friend say nice things about my framework, and I think the features are great. I won't go back either. I wanted this. Now I got it... but I can't stand it!

Maybe I just need some rest. But one thing's for sure. I don't think the perfect framework exists. Not in terms of cost, effort and application. I am an idiot. Yet I can't see any better approach.

Deadline 1 dec...

Let's just hope that the reason I feel like this is because I just need to climb over the current abstract threshold and things will start to run more smoothly for me. It really is really really fun occationally, because the system really is well thought of (seen from a distance, maybe not in it's exact and current implementation). One benefit I will draw from this though - that I can exchange parts of this system to make things better without editing too many files. That I like. It's my poor brain that bugs me. I do things kind'a the right way but soon it'll cause my eyes to catch fire.

PFFFT! - good feeling to vent this. Thank God for General discussion phora.

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:48 am
by phpScott
Preach it brother.

Spread the word of spending too much time on one project with out letting the brain rest will cause delusions of grander and general nastiness towards the code.

I’m sure you hard work will pay off somewhere it the end and make your life easier. Take a break, play some violent game to get rid of the aggression and be thankful you have a boss that had endless patience.

I have half a feeling what your going through now as I just spent a week of doing a small bit of code that finally works. Nothing to complicated just tricky as heck :twisted: and made me a little greyer :( and a little more learned in the way of php.

We can all feel your pain.

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:50 am
by Heavy
Yes, it's sometimes like that huh?
Simple request, but a pain to implement.
patrikG wrote:Take a break, play some violent game to get rid of the aggression and be thankful you have a boss that had endless patience.
I got that:
... play some violin ...
And I should... I have a Cello.
:wink:

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:37 am
by Heavy
I just realized the hours in building a website framework from scratch and building a house is comparable...

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:17 pm
by kral_majales
add to that the hours required to find and then fix a tiny bug caused by one line of misplaced code .... 8O

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:46 pm
by Heavy
kral_majales wrote:add to that the hours required to find and then fix a tiny bug caused by one line of misplaced code .... 8O
Noob :twisted:

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:50 pm
by Heavy
You mean the BIG bug and the simple, yet difficult to find fix
New avatar BTW...
Best one so far I think.

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:16 pm
by kral_majales
lol, yeah, many of my mistakes are very noobish, haha, but i am new to php, so i forgive myself :lol:

and yes those are the kind of bugs that i mean!

K

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:59 pm
by Roja
Heavy wrote:
kral_majales wrote:add to that the hours required to find and then fix a tiny bug caused by one line of misplaced code .... 8O
Noob :twisted:
Oh if you only knew.. its hardly restricted to noobs.. I so wish it were. :)

Now, unit tests make it MUCH easier to spot, but for sections of code where you dont have them setup yet...

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:05 pm
by Heavy
Roja wrote:Oh if you only knew.. its hardly restricted to noobs.. I so wish it were. :)

Now, unit tests make it MUCH easier to spot, but for sections of code where you dont have them setup yet...
Ah, I was just joking. I often feel the bugs (the mentioned kind) coming before they actually happen, and start to rewrite parts that are too ugly. If the code is easily read, bugs are shallow.

My worse headache is the vast number of files I have caused myself to have to deal with. I have about one hundred only in this project, and like I said... the site does not even support logging in yet... So I don't write many bugs, but I have a heavy system around.

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:12 pm
by kral_majales
lol, so you have some kind of ESP (Extra-script Perception) that allows you to predict stuff like that? cool :lol:

when i'm trying to find a bug, i often use variables named after swearwords; sometimes it makes me feel better! when i was making a simple site in html when i was like 15, frames were giving me a real headache, and i renamed one of the frames 'ihateyou'... childish i know, but it made me feel better :lol:

K

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:24 pm
by John Cartwright
kral_majales wrote:lol, so you have some kind of ESP (Extra-script Perception) that allows you to predict stuff like that? cool :lol:

when i'm trying to find a bug, i often use variables named after swearwords; sometimes it makes me feel better! when i was making a simple site in html when i was like 15, frames were giving me a real headache, and i renamed one of the frames 'ihateyou'... childish i know, but it made me feel better :lol:

K
Take a break, play some violent game to get rid of the aggression and be thankful
I think we should take away his violent video games :P

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:31 pm
by Heavy
kral_majales wrote:lol, so you have some kind of ESP (Extra-script Perception) that allows you to predict stuff like that? cool :lol:
Well... What is a true bug?
I wouldn't call something a bug when it is just about "I haven't finished coding this particular section yet so things don't work as they should".

To me, a bug is when I expect everything is well and I believe I have tested it thoroughly, and the ugly little fella shows his face despite my efforts...

Those I seldom do nowadays.

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:33 pm
by Heavy
Phenom wrote:I think we should take away his violent video games :P
That, or make sure he actually takes it out on the games :wink:

Gosh! I like my new avatar!

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:03 pm
by kral_majales
lol, good point! hopefully as my skills develop i wont need to swear in my scripts, and will become better at finding out where the problems are!

K