substitution to a hub-- help!

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substitution to a hub-- help!

Post by John Cartwright »

Okay in my house I run 4 different systems, 2 laptops and 2 desktops (and a xbox)
In my basement I have a laptop and a desktop and my modem and router.

So far it looks like this

Code: Select all

cable -> router -> comp
                -> laptop
now here comes my problem, I run a single wire from my basement into my own bedroom where I have another laptop, desktop, and of course my xbox.

so my setup looks like

Code: Select all

cable -> router -> wire to my room -> hub -> desktop
                -> comp                   -> laptop
                -> laptop                 -> xbox
what I want to do it get rid of my hub, because it is really slowing down my network transfers. Example, I can only upload to my xbox at a maximum of around 750kb/s, which is too slow for my liking. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to either

1) speed up my network connection
2) replace hub with some connection splitter of some sort?

Thanks in advance for replies
Last edited by John Cartwright on Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
rehfeld
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Post by rehfeld »

when i saw "help!" i thought it was some newbie posting :D

its been a while since i read up on this stuff, but im pretty sure
going to a switch would do the trick for you.

i think a hub splits available bandwidth over the connectiions, while a switch will allow
each connection full bandwidth.


go get a 10/100 switch and make sure your cable supports 100mbps
i think you need cat5e or greater

your connections would still compete for bandwidth along the cable that goes from your room to basement,
but 100mbps is pretty damn fast and im prob well over what you need. but the switch will allow each connection
to use all 100mbps if other connections arent using any, or if they are, it will allow it as much as is available.

but verify what im saying, i could be very wrong :D
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infolock
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Post by infolock »

A hub will definately split up the bandwidth between connections. The main purpose of a hub is #1 to act like a splitter so that all traffic can talk to one another and #2 as an amplipher to strengthen the signal. If you are looking for a cheap way to do away with a hub, you can do it by making a daisy chain (ie, 2 nics per computer, running a cable from one to the other). However, you are going to notice an even more reduced amount of traffic due to the number of hops.

example :

say you have 4 computers (a,b,c,d) that are hooked up to each other. In this type of setup, in order for a to communicate with d, it has to do this : Send packet to b. Ask "Are you d?" Reply "No", b sends response and forwards to c, c does the same, to d, and then d reverses teh process.

The other thing that you should maybe look at is the length of your cabling. If you are running cable too far, the signal weakens and thus the transfers will be hampered dramastically.

So, what can we do? Either one of 3 things : a) get a wifi router and wifi cards for the units you want to use and do away with the cable. b) get another router. c) stick with what you got and check out the distance each cable is running. I don't remember the exact amount that IEEE suggests, but they have datagrams on the net that should point you in the correct direction.

Hope this helps...

edit : aye, a switch or a bridge would work just as good, though you won't have as much control as you do with a router. Either way, you are looking at spending just as much money either way. might as well go ahead and spend the extra 30-40 bucks and get a router..
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Post by rehfeld »

but couldnt you use both a switch and a router?

cable modem-->router--->switch

i was thinking run a 10/100 cable from the router he already has in the basement up to his room(assuming the router is 10/100, otherwise it gots ta go)

then in his room, plug that cable into the switch, and then connect each computer to that switch
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Post by pickle »

Ya, ~rehfeld is right - just get a switch. Or, it might work if you just redesign the network a bit.
I take it you've got cable coming into your house (into your modem). Why not just have a cable go from the modem to your router, but have your router in your room. Then, you could use the ports on your router in your room

Code: Select all

->cable comes into house ---------> router --> desktop box
                                           --> laptop
                                           --> laptop
                                           --> xbox
Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.
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Post by John Cartwright »

pickle wrote:Ya, ~rehfeld is right - just get a switch. Or, it might work if you just redesign the network a bit.
I take it you've got cable coming into your house (into your modem). Why not just have a cable go from the modem to your router, but have your router in your room. Then, you could use the ports on your router in your room

Code: Select all

->cable comes into house ---------> router --> desktop box
                                           --> laptop
                                           --> laptop
                                           --> xbox
Thanks for the replies guys, much apreciated. But the problem with that layout is how am I going to get the laptop and desktop in the basement with internet when there will be only 1 ethernet wire for 2 computers?

I would also like to mention that I only have 1 wire (and can only have1 wire) going from my basement to my room through the walls

What about a wireless network? How fast are they for transfering files. Because I hear switches are quite expensive and are generally used for the use of a lot of computers, not a small home network. Can any computer be configured for the use of wireless network? I remember my friend had like an antenna on his desktop, so I'm assumuming his computer didn't have integrated wireless support.
FROM ANOTHER FORUM wrote:a switch would speed up access within your room, but youll still have a bottlekneck connection your room to the router, and the other 2 computers.

only option would be upgrading to gigabit network, but thats going to cost a fair bit for the sake of saving a few minutes transfer
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Post by pickle »

Ah, then I'd suggest getting a router. You can usually pick them up for about $100 at Staples (that's in Canadian $$ too).

I REALLY wouldn't suggest going to a wireless network if you live in a community. I've got wireless in my house, but unfortunately so do my neighbours. Every once in a while, our networks conflict and I have to just wait a while. Very frustrating.
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Post by John Cartwright »

I'm a bit confused, you suggest using 2 routers?

As for wireless networking, my friend had the same problem, where people would leech his network, and it was easily fixed by limiting the network to only specific IPS I believe.
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Post by pickle »

Well, you need 2 places where multiple computers can plug in - the basement with your laptop an desktop, and your room with the other desktop, 2 laptops and the Xbox. The reason I suggested 2 routers is only because you thought the cost of a switch might be prohibitive. I don't know what the price of a switch is, but like I said, a router is about $100. You can certainly put in 2 routers and still have your network work fine. I'm thinking it should work if you just plug one into the other.
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Post by John Cartwright »

Thanks for all the help guys :)

btw
rehfeld wrote:when i saw "help!" i thought it was some newbie posting :D
who sais im not a newbie 8)
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Post by redmonkey »

Given that this is quite a simplistic network I'd be surprised if it was the hub causing your slow down issues.

There are many factors that could cause this issue. You only note the connectivity speed of you xbox, have you tried running the cable to your room directly to your xbox to see if there is a significant increase in speed?

I assume you have a 100Mbps network? have you confirmed that all machines are fitted with 100Mbps NICs?
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Post by infolock »

the xbox systems in most cases run as fast if not faster than pc's.. trust me, i've seen them in action..

anyways, switches and routers work almost the exact same way, just routers have more options.. that's why i recommended the router instead of a router instead. why not just spend a few extra dollars for a better piece of equipment. the whole "is it 10/100" etc etc would matter unless the guy is using a comptuer that's been built in the 486 days... so that is not even a question honestly...

the main thing to check is the distance each computer is from the hub or router. if it's not very much, check the distance between the hub and the router. if it's still not much, get a router. 1200 feet (i think) is the when the signal drops almost complete. 700 feet is when you notice bandwidth problems. anything else should be fine. simple as that.


edit: these numbers i gave can very well be wrong. it's been a year since i tried to memorize them...
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Post by John Cartwright »

I removed my xbox and my laptop and brought my xbox directly to the router and removed the hub for testing purposes.

Before I averaged 700kb/s transfer
Now I average about 4200kb/s transfer

Verdict? Hubs suck :)

I know ethernet cables have obviously gotten better over the years, but do you think I should go pick up some better oens? Do you think it would make a sizable difference?
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Post by rehfeld »

im not so sure about the prices quoted above.

you can seriously find name brand 4 port 10/100 switches for like $20 brand new if you watch the sales at like best buy / comp usa etc...
a GOOD wireless router will run about $70-100 if you want like wireless g w/ the "speed enhancers" and stuff.
pretty much any fairly recent router has a built in switch. but you can find a good basic non-wireless router for $30-40

i wouldnt recomend trying to use wireless from your basement up to your room though, even if you do get signal it will likely be weak and
a weak wirless signal is SLOW, and weak connections can drop the connection occasionally, which is a major annoyance. but if you have the wireless router in the same room as the computers, it will definately get good signal and it will be fast
i used to work at best buy and people returned wireless stuff ALL THE TIME because of signal problems. im sure new hardware
has improved since then, but imho trying to broadcast from a basment is still a bad idea.


hey phenom, if your intested i have some dlink stuff im not using anymore ill let go dirt cheap

(1) DI-514 wireless router w/ built in 4 port 10/100 switch
(2) DWL-520 802.11b wireless nic cards


they were used for less than 2 months. i moved to a new place and the electrical wiring here is horrible(lights dim all the time and that stuff)
i think it causes interference because when i moved i couldnt get the wirless network stable anymore, it would drop connections all the time.
its not the hardware though cause i borrowed some lynksis stuff from my brother to test and it wasnt any better

i still have all the boxes and manuals etc that came w/ all of them. one of the wireless cards has never even been opened, still in shrink wrap.

$30 takes all. ill front it to you if you want.

as long as the router you already have is 10/100, you could keep your setup as is,
and just replace the hub w/ this wireless router. if using 2 routers though, you will need to
plug the cable from the basement into one of the 4 ports on the wireless router, so you will only have 3 ports left.
but thats how a plain old switch works anyway

you would still want to make sure your using cat5e or better cable for that run from your basement up to the room.
cat5e can go for a couple hundred feet generally before signal loss starts starts to slow things down.
i beleive regular cat5 still supports 10/100, but isnt as good over long distances, but cat5e can go long distances no prob, my brother runs a length prob 150 feet and can still transfer at like 95-97mbps

if you want even cheaper than what im offering, look on ebay. you can prob get what you need very cheaply.
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Post by redmonkey »

Phenom wrote:I removed my xbox and my laptop and brought my xbox directly to the router and removed the hub for testing purposes.

Before I averaged 700kb/s transfer
Now I average about 4200kb/s transfer

Verdict? Hubs suck :)

I know ethernet cables have obviously gotten better over the years, but do you think I should go pick up some better oens? Do you think it would make a sizable difference?
Did you plug the cable to your room directly to you xbox or did you physically take the xbox down to the basement next to your router?

You should remove one component at a time when troubleshooting, it could simply be your laptop is chattering away filling your network with traffic.

I recently experienced a major slow down issue with our office LAN (80+ machines), turned out to be a 1 metre patch cable hooking two hubs together. Although the indicators on the hub showed a good solid link the cable was at fault. Good quality cables/connectors do make a difference.
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