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Are you an amatuer?

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:48 pm
by markl999
Today i was shooting the breeze with a client and he asked the question, "Compared to other sites how 'professional' PHP wise is the one you've given us?"
Now modesty and all that aside i told him tha i honestly thought that it was up there with the best of them as i belived it was, but it got me to thinking. PHP is so easy to pick up and just start using as we can see from these forums that i wondered how many what i'm calling 'amatuers' are writing/selling PHP sites for clients?
I think you know when you're an amatuer without having to class it as say, 'less than one years practical usage'. So the real question i want to know the answer to is this, 'Are you an amatuer who's creating and selling PHP sites to clients?'.
I think we've all been at a point where we've know we're not entirley up to the job but we can get away with it ( i have been there) .. are you currently at that point now but are exaggerating your capabilities? (and remember .. all modesty aside, there's nothing wrong with being an amatuer, i'm just after honest answers ;))

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:53 pm
by Trenchant
I consider myself a good programmer although I mainly use my knowledge for management. I contract out work and make sure it all comes in on time. So my knowledge is used so you dont have: "A fisherman asking a banker how to cut fish."

I do also do some programming for fun and anything my website needs I will make.

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:58 pm
by feyd
although, technically, I've had just about 1 years experience working in PHP, I'd consider myself pretty far from amateur, due to several years prior to this of professional programming in C.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:03 am
by markl999
due to several years prior to this of professional programming in C
That's a good point. Most people say it 'helps' to have previous programming experience, i'd say it's a requirement. Syntax is easy (that's what manuals are for) but structure takes time.

btw, i wasn't being flippent when i posted this question, i'm genuienly interested ;)

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:08 am
by feyd
prior experience is a major requirement in a lot of things...

I tend to think of it sorta like: Everybody and their brother can "write" HTML.. but how many are skilled at writing clean HTML that works and looks great.
Odds: million to one. no offense meant to anyone out there.

note: I don't count myself in the skilled clean HTML.. My HTML still comes from the world of tables. :) ... sorta..

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:21 am
by Trenchant
HTML is a twisted language. Millions of people know it but they know incorrect ways of writing it. Coding up to standards was something I didn't even know of in HTML a few years ago.

School systems now teach things like HTML in highschool but they dont talk about how it will look gibled if you open a page with IE and then with opra...

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:24 am
by timvw
i think php has the same future as visual basic... :(

it will be hated/spitted out, because of the big pile of crappy code created because of the low entry-level.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:26 am
by feyd
yeah, that's quite possible... well 5 has a higher barrier to useful code, maybe it's a weeding out period? :lol:

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:19 am
by onion2k
My PHP varies from 'blimey, I'm amazed that even works' to 'blimey, thats ninja coding skillz'. Depends on how I'm feeling. Due to the nature of the company I work for a lot of the professional stuff I write is quite nasty.. the management are too much inclined to get working code out the door than getting nice working code out the door.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:21 am
by feyd
faster turn around has it's benefits.. but not every company is totally focused on the cash flow..