PHP Certification/Training

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neophyte
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PHP Certification/Training

Post by neophyte »

I'm looking to enhance my resume by having some sort of PHP Mysql Cert/training listed on it. I do not have any coding background or training. As many of you know my background is art and graphic design. Do any of you know of any places that offer such training? Distance/Online training would be ideal -- yes I'm looking for a piece of paper. For some reason paper eases the minds of employers.

Thanks
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neophyte
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Post by neophyte »

Anybody here have Zen Certification or know anything about it? How hard the exam is etc, etc... Does the Certification carry any merit? What do you think of it?
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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn »

I don't have it but I can answer one question:

"Does it carry any merit?"

Yes. It is the most recognised PHP qualification. OK, it's not a computer science degree but it's very specific to PHP and it's done by the people who know. I have no idea what the exam is like (or even what it costs, but that's on the website) but if you get that on your CV it's a good start ;)

It's something I might actually take myself :)
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neophyte
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Post by neophyte »

The study guides cost about $60 which includes a practice exam. The test itself is about $200. I'm seriously considering studying up and taking the test. Even if I don't pass I'll at least have increased my knowledge of the language.
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Post by onion2k »

d11wtq wrote:I don't have it but I can answer one question:

"Does it carry any merit?"

Yes. It is the most recognised PHP qualification. OK, it's not a computer science degree but it's very specific to PHP and it's done by the people who know. I have no idea what the exam is like (or even what it costs, but that's on the website) but if you get that on your CV it's a good start ;)
I'd like to counter that point. I'm Head of Production at a small PHP development company, and at a previous company I was involved in the technical side of interviewing potential employees. The Zend cert is very biased toward knowing picky little bits of obscure syntax ("What does count() do if you pass it a string?"). That sort of thing is utterly useless to an employer, and wouldn't impress me in the slightest if I was looking over your CV. As an employer I'd want to know you have the skills to take a site spec and turn it into good quality working code, I don't give a damn if you know which function you'd use to reverse the keys and values in an array*. I'd expect you to be able to find that in the manual in 2 minutes.

If you want things on your CV that impress people then get involved in open source projects (or start one), get URLs on there (WORKING ones.. I've seen lots of CVs with broken/expired URLs.. employers immediately think "file to bin"), write real code that does impressive or unusual things (my GD work is a good example).

The Zend cert could be passed after a couple of weeks reading the study guide and manual. You need to PROVE you can write real PHP in order to make yourself a candidate employers really want to employ.

* array_flip() if you're wondering.
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neophyte
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Post by neophyte »

onion2k wrote: I'd like to counter that point. I'm Head of Production at a small PHP development company, and at a previous company I was involved in the technical side of interviewing potential employees. The Zend cert is very biased toward knowing picky little bits of obscure syntax ("What does count() do if you pass it a string?"). That sort of thing is utterly useless to an employer, and wouldn't impress me in the slightest if I was looking over your CV. As an employer I'd want to know you have the skills to take a site spec and turn it into good quality working code, I don't give a damn if you know which function you'd use to reverse the keys and values in an array*.
I appreciate companies who take this stand. I wish all of them did. But unfortunately for some the cv goes in the bin if they don't see certification or paper of somekind indicating formal training.

I wouldn't reccomend leaning on the certification any more than a college degree, but honestly if you saw some one with zend certification and ADODB development team on their cv would n't you think, "this guy knows his crap and doesn't need the manual to look it up?" Or is the test that useless?
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Post by timvw »

I've never cared about how well people know some ugly details (and php is a pita concerning function arguments, because sometimes $needle comes first, and then $eye comes first). What i do care about is how fast they can find it in the manual...

I like "open book" exams more, because in real-life you'll have access to the manual too.


I think that for most knowledgable programmers a php certification wont add much extra value to their CV.
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Post by Burrito »

timvw wrote: I like "open book" exams more, because in real-life you'll have access to the manual too.
I'm not sure what that means in your case timvw... 8O It's like an endless loop conundrum.

my $.02:

take the exam, it's only $200.00. I share onion's opinion that real-world experience is much better than some stupid cert any day of the week, but coupling the two together can only increase your resume value. I've seen a lot of your posts neophyte and it's clear that you have your shizzle together. One thing about having a cert though, is it shows you have the aptitude to learn something. I agree consulting and knowing how to use timvw is probably a better use of time than memorizing function argument doo doo, but proving that you have the aptitude to do that memorization can only help.

it's only 200 bones, better to use it on somethign that *could* help you get a job, than a weekend kegger...
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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn »

<off-topic>
You know... you can actually find work via this forum (good work). There are managers and project leaders that use this forum too. If they've seen your posts and you advertise yourself in Job hunt you might just land yourself something nice. I did ;)
</off-topic>
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neophyte
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Post by neophyte »

Thanks for the off topic. Just finished my first freelance project. The product: industrial size manure dryer/burner -- No Crap!

Hey Burrito thanks for the vote of confidence.
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Post by McGruff »

The Zend certificate is being advertised as:
Attaining the 'Zend Certified Engineer' credential demonstrates the highest degree of PHP expertise.
Items in the exam objectives such as "opening a file; closing a file" seem to suggest that's a rather inflated claim. OOP gets scant mention and there's no mention at all of unit testing or continuous integration. It sounds more like an A-level than a phD.
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Post by Roja »

McGruff wrote: Items in the exam objectives such as "opening a file; closing a file" seem to suggest that's a rather inflated claim. OOP gets scant mention and there's no mention at all of unit testing or continuous integration. It sounds more like an A-level than a phD.
Four thoughts:

1. Considering that many of the notables on planet-php have recently obtained theirs, ask them. Most of them are among the very best php programmers I've heard of, including contributors to php itself.
2. Only ~600 people have the cert. It's certainly less easy to obtain than an A+ cert, for example.
3. OOP is absolutely mentioned - its a major topic in the study guide.
4. No one commenting here has taken it yet, so we are all just speculating.

The same arguments can be made for any cert.. it's useful to a career, but doesn't prove you know what you need to know. It's too hard for some people but too simple for elitists. It's worth having, or not worth having, depending on your point of view and needs.

Its all relative.
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Post by McGruff »

The real killer though is the absence of unit testing. I'm genuinely shocked that an "expert" level exam does not require knowledge of such an essential practice. Coming as it does from Zend itself, this only serves to confirm the low standards which exist in php rather than attempting to set higher, harder goals.

If I was an employer I wouldn't employ anyone who wasn't experienced with OOP & testing. That's the minimum standard IMO for anyone who aspires to be a pro. If I'm asked for advice by someone looking for a programmer that's what I always say. And I'd never get involved in another project where testing wasn't central to the development effort, not for any money.

Just ask the other mods how much I enjoy maintaining phpBB... (it's days are numbered here, believe me).

I'm sure the Zend cert is valuable for what it is. My complaint is just that it's being presented as something it clearly isn't.
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Post by Roja »

McGruff wrote:I'm genuinely shocked that an "expert" level exam does not require knowledge of such an essential practice.
...
I'm sure the Zend cert is valuable for what it is. My complaint is just that it's being presented as something it clearly isn't.
If your only criteria of an "expert" level exam is the presence or not of knowledge of unit testing, I can't say I could agree.

The gamut of topics and issues in php is vast, and there are plenty of other items to judge on. Its a wide test, and a deep test.. that it missed a corner of the map that to you is critical doesn't change the fact that it covers a very large portion of that map.

As with so many things, I guess we disagree.
McGruff wrote:Just ask the other mods how much I enjoy maintaining phpBB... (it's days are numbered here, believe me).
I sincerely hope thats not the case, or if it is, the alternative would have to be shockingly, stunningly similar in functionality to phpbb. I *despise* several other php forums because they use truly non-user-friendly forum software, and I'd hate to leave here for the same reason.

If you are planning a switch, please ensure that the replacement is virtually identical (at the user level) to phpbb.. As much value as these forums have, I can't say that I have the patience or willingness to learn yet another forum interface.
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neophyte
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de tour de france

Post by neophyte »

Thanks for the extra insight on the cert exam Roja. I'm sure the exam is quite difficult. And I can't imagine someone would be worse off for having studied and taken the exam.

Considering I have absolutely no formal training in any sort of technology other than Photoshop, I'm definitly going to pursue certification and participation in an open source project of some kind. Many people who employ PHP programmers don't know jack about html or ftp let alone server side programming, but if they see PHP cert on a resume that may be proof enough for them that I can get the job done. I've not taken a look at the sudy guides yet but I'm shooting for January to take the cert exam provided I'm not entirely overwhelmed by the practice exam. Even if I am, I'm still going for it -- no later than this time next year. Anybody else want to join me? 8)
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