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Zend or other?

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:01 pm
by William
Hey all, Is it possible to use Zend to make it so if I update a file lets say test.php and I was typing hey how are you at the top. It would update on my friends zend? (Zend Studio v3.0.1). If not is there anyway of doing this? Basicly I want us to be able to work on the same PHP file and it shows up on our screens at the same time. If you have used linux then you would know about the screen command. It alot like that, Anything typing in it shows up on all the computers viewing it. As it is typed.

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:06 pm
by sheila
With Zend (on Linux) if you have a file loaded in the IDE and then edit it outside the IDE, you will get a popup telling you that the file was changed externally and asking if you want to reload it from disk. So it can detect when files are changed.

I'm not sure why you would want to be editing a file at the same time as someone else.

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:10 am
by timvw
I just can't see the advantage of such a functionality in an IDE? With CVS and SVN you can commit your changes/editting efforts wheyn they are completed.. And as soon as others request for an update they will be able to see your changes.. And if it appears you and others changed the same lines it will raise a warning...

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:17 am
by feyd
Maybe he's referring to using it as a teaching tool?

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:19 am
by timvw
I think that it's easier to share a desktop in that case ;) Think (K)VNC in that case might be easier :)

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:25 am
by Roja
Nope. All off.. He's looking for a collaborative development model. Think Pair Programming, but remotely: Instead of sitting next to each other, you both are working in the IDE together at the same time, on the same file.

Smart whiteboards are the best analogy I can think of, and the screen/talk comparison is good too.

Unfortunately, William, I've never seen an IDE that supports doing that. It's definitely an interesting idea. I could see the value in it, but I'm not sure anyone will add it. It would take a considerable amount of work to do so, I think.

Nice idea though.

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:30 pm
by William
Yeah we do use VNC but that moves the mouse and keyboard on the users computer. So we can be working on the same file on diffrent lines. As for white boards hmm... Somone should try to create a programm that its like notepad but has good syntax highlighting, and make it so you can edit diffrent lines at once. and have a small file manager so they can manage the files where working for. CVS looks like the best idea. As for White boards I will look into them. :), Thanks all.

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:04 am
by Jenk
If you are going to be working on different parts/sections of the file (for example different functions) why not break it up into two files? Or just copy+paste the parts you want to edit, then when you have made the changes, paste back and save?

Pair Programming (unless you are sat next to each other with only one keyboard) is a nightmare and it is recommended you stay away from it.

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:22 am
by n00b Saibot
Jenk wrote:Pair Programming (unless you are sat next to each other with only one keyboard) is a nightmare and it is recommended you stay away from it.
Unless you are into those Agile Methodologies. We had such seminar here. Agile Methodologies and XP and all that stuff. They say using XP & Pair Programming methods shorten workload and results are achieved 65% faster. How about that....

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:41 am
by Roja
Jenk wrote:If you are going to be working on different parts/sections of the file (for example different functions) why not break it up into two files? Or just copy+paste the parts you want to edit, then when you have made the changes, paste back and save?
Because some files can't reasonably be broken up into seperate sections, and because some work by design has to touch multiple sections of the file, or multiple files.

I've run into that often while working on BNT, where numerous changes have to hit a single file, yet other changes are very localized. Once you run into those, you see the value in things like CVS and shared whiteboard development.
Jenk wrote:Pair Programming (unless you are sat next to each other with only one keyboard) is a nightmare and it is recommended you stay away from it.
Actually, Pair Programming has gotten a huge amount of support and testing in the last few years. I'd say its far from a 'decided truth', but it certainly has value in the right situation.

If the Original Poster is used to/better at Pair Programming, and needs to continue that process remotely to ensure better productivity, more power to him/her. Its all about what works for each person, and if thats what makes them better, who are we to judge?

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:50 am
by Jenk
I'm just thinking with a version control/integrity mindset.

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:05 am
by Roja
Jenk wrote:I'm just thinking with a version control/integrity mindset.
To be honest, I can't get my head around Pair Programming for the most part. I've done it a few times, and having someone comment realtime on my code certainly helps.

However, I didn't gain much from it that I couldn't gain from a well done version control system - like you said.

But, we should always understand that different people need different things, and if the OP does better with Pair, good for him. Think of it like this.. imagine someone asking you to program using paper and a crayon as your first step.

Yeah, painful. Same deal here.. the wrong tool, that arguably is still usable, can really hurt your productivity.

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:11 am
by feyd
when a computer isn't directly available, I've written plenty of code on a piece of paper/naptkin/skin :)

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:11 am
by n00b Saibot
Roja wrote:having someone comment realtime on my code certainly helps.
to me, its really <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> :x

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:12 am
by Grim...
And it's got to be a poor use of Human Resources, surely?

(But thank God you don't get a Clippit trying to help :lol: "It looks like you are coding a loop. Do you want some help?")