Page 2 of 2

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:46 pm
by Roja
alvinphp wrote:I am not saying that a person that uses an IDE knows more then one that likes a plain text editor. I am saying that if you have 2 people with the same skills (and both know how to code without the debugger) the one that uses an IDE will code faster then the one that uses the text editor.
Not if the IDE isn't their regular development environment. Color highlighting actually slows me down, and in virtually every editor that has it, it can't be disabled. Its mostly due to my visual deficiencies, but its an issue nevertheless.

Each person has an environment they are most used to, and most proficient in. Taking them out of that will always reduce their proficiency - not increase it as you claim.

An easier argument to make would be that an IDE can improve the efficiency of most programmers.

By avoiding general statements ("will") that apply to all situations, you can avoid impossible debates. Just a tip. :)

Not to mention, I'm one of those annoying people that tends to break most of the molds, providing a tidy exception to most sweeping/over-broad statements. (And one of the people likely to call it out).

Also keep in mind that your statements come from the point of view of using an IDE. You've stated that you've used both Eclipse and Zend, so clearly, you have some comfort level there - which reinforces your opinion that people code faster in one, because you code faster in one.

Its not true for everyone, and I'd say the "twice as fast" argument is extremely weak.

Lets focus on whether people have used Zend, and if they like it. I think thats a much more useful discussion. :)

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:49 pm
by Charles256
I'd stick with just annoying as your description;) even if I am beginning to respect your knowledge you still annoy the tar out of me.

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:10 pm
by Bill H
I would tend to agree with Roja. Color highlighting doesn't slow me down (nor sure it helps all that much), but IDE's in general certainly do. I find I am much more comfortable (and faster) in a plain text editor.

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:53 am
by n00b Saibot
Bill H wrote:I would tend to agree with Roja. Color highlighting doesn't slow me down (nor sure it helps all that much), but IDE's in general certainly do. I find I am much more comfortable (and faster) in a plain text editor.
Color Highlighting isn't a thing that will help you code better but certainly improves code readability atleast for me. The features that matter most to me are Custom Syntax Highlighting, Support for XHTML Validation, Code Completion and Project Mgmt. 8)

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:15 am
by Roja
n00b Saibot wrote:Color Highlighting isn't a thing that will help you code better but certainly improves code readability atleast for me. The features that matter most to me are Custom Syntax Highlighting, Support for XHTML Validation, Code Completion and Project Mgmt. 8)
Syntax highlighting is right there with color highlighting - it makes it visually difficult for me. The coding guidelines I use make bracket matching super simple even in plaintext, so thats no issue, and there aren't many other benefits (for me) to syntax highlighting, and lots of disadvantages.

XHTML validation would actually be bad for me.. I code lots of smarty templates, and raw php (neither of which would be valid xhtml!), and very rarely an actual html page. For the few times I do, it would be in NVU, arguably the greatest webdesign program ever.

Code completion similarly would get in my way.. I type faster than the programs can usually cycle through the choices and would get annoyed quickly at it interrupting me with visual changes to what I was typing.

Now project management is arguably tempting.. I remember how nice and organized things were in the IDE's for C and Pascal that I used, but honestly, I just don't need it much in PHP.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. But to answer the original posters question, no - I haven't used Zend. Probably won't unless I get a job that forces me to.

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:32 am
by n00b Saibot
Roja wrote:Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Yerrright :) As for Nvu, I downloaded it on Saturday, will be playing with it till i get a hold on what it offers. most annoying thing in it are those big buttons on the toolbar :evil:

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:29 am
by Bill H
I would hate code completion. Firefox has completion for input fields and I haven't figured out how to turn it off. It annoys the sand out of me.

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:52 am
by Charles256
really?i can't figure out how to turn it on.lol.

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:25 am
by n00b Saibot
Tried Nvu in the evening today. everything looked fine until I opened one PHP file in it and switched to the source view. i was in for a shock - it showed the part from where the actual HTML began and all the previous PHP code was stripped 8O i had control blurting wtf in front of my femme junior colleague :x

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:44 am
by Deemo
the one thing i dont like about Nvu is that you cant have projects.

Maybe im too used to the generic, "have a project, put all your files in it" style, but i find it annoying to have to go to the open menu every time i wish to edit another file. In that aspect, i would rather use dreamweaver, because it gives the syntax highlighting (which i like), but it also allows projects (or sites as they call it) so i have all my files all organized neatly into one place.

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:15 am
by feyd
Bill H wrote:Firefox has completion for input fields and I haven't figured out how to turn it off. It annoys the sand out of me.
Tools > Options > Privacy Tab > Saved Forms tab/stub
uncheck the "Save information I enter in forms and the Search Bar."
Click "Clear Saved Forms Data Now" to remove existing saves.

Image

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:28 am
by Roja
n00b Saibot wrote:Tried Nvu in the evening today. everything looked fine until I opened one PHP file in it and switched to the source view. i was in for a shock - it showed the part from where the actual HTML began and all the previous PHP code was stripped 8O i had control blurting wtf in front of my femme junior colleague :x
Which is where I go back to my point about NVU being for HTML, *not* php. :)