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Zend 5 Beta
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:50 pm
by alvinphp
I am trying out the new Zend 5 beta and I have to say this is a pretty nice IDE. The debug worked without any extra configuration, adding my existing project was easy (plus it found a few problems that if fixed), and subversion is integrated so I was able to use it without any additional configuration/installation.
Has anyone else played with 5 yet?
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:39 pm
by Deemo
the main reason i would consider getting it is code folding and svn intergration. I hope they fix alot in this, Zend has always bugged me with its numerous memory leaks and just overal slowness
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:21 am
by alvinphp
Deemo wrote:the main reason i would consider getting it is code folding and svn intergration. I hope they fix alot in this, Zend has always bugged me with its numerous memory leaks and just overal slowness
If all you care about is code folding and svn integration then just get Eclipse PHP and add on the SVN module.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:05 pm
by Deemo
yes but PHPEclipse doesnt have a good debugger. otherwise, i would use it. Zend has the profiler integration, and the handy IE toolbar
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:12 pm
by alvinphp
Deemo wrote:yes but PHPEclipse doesnt have a good debugger. otherwise, i would use it. Zend has the profiler integration, and the handy IE toolbar
I could not find a php debugger for Eclipse, if they had that I would probably stay with Eclipse for PHP.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:17 pm
by pilau
I use Vim

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:26 pm
by Maugrim_The_Reaper
Least someone does

I'm a plain texter meself once it can highlight syntax...
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:40 am
by Bill H
I'm another plain-texter. Too old for all this "new fangled" stuff.
Seriously, though, too often I have hired people who were taught using newer performance enhancement devices and techniques and as a result were completely ignorant of the underlying technlogy. To the point that they were unable to perform the work I had hired them to do. (I was in heavy machinery installation at the time.)
I think debuggers are a case in point. Become proficient at debugging code in a text-only environment, then move to a debugger to enhance performance once you thoroughly know what you are doing.
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:53 am
by alvinphp
Bill H wrote:I'm another plain-texter. Too old for all this "new fangled" stuff.
Seriously, though, too often I have hired people who were taught using newer performance enhancement devices and techniques and as a result were completely ignorant of the underlying technology. To the point that they were unable to perform the work I had hired them to do. (I was in heavy machinery installation at the time.)
I think debuggers are a case in point. Become proficient at debugging code in a text-only environment, then move to a debugger to enhance performance once you thoroughly know what you are doing.
There are WYSIWYG editors and then IDE editors. I have yet to find a person who is proficient in an IDE editor that is completely ignorant of the underlying technology. What I have found is they can develop twice as fast as a person using a plain text editor. Thinking about it, those that use an IDE tend to understand the technology much better then plain text coders. And if that IDE broke they can still easily code in notepad (if they have to). It is the WYSIWYG editors where you can have no understanding of the underlying technology.
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:33 pm
by Bill H
I have yet to find a person who is proficient in an IDE editor that is completely ignorant of the underlying technology.
..and I have met more than a few C++ programmers who were so dependent on the debugger built into MS Visual C++ IDE that they were completely unable to debug outside of that environment. They didn't even know where or how to start the process.
Make no mistake, I think MS Visual C++ is about the nicest thing ever created. But I won't hire a programmer who
first learned C/C++ in that environment.
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:37 pm
by Charles256
yeah, what about those that learn in an old VC++ enviroment? My school is teaching with VC++6.0 and let me tell you I don't much care for it. I'll use my bloodshed every day of hte week first.. If only it was optional...
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:47 pm
by feyd
VC6 was pretty decent... you just have to know how to use it.... the farther back you go the less features you have in the IDE.. I've always built my stuff so that I could build it outside VC with nmake and stderr output stuff for manual debugging.. pretty standard to me.. I do like the visual debugger in VC though.. haven't like Zend at all, ever.
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:49 pm
by Charles256
well my main gripe comes from the fact i can write some code.. try to compile it andit won't. copy the code into a new project and it runs fine. how the hell does that make sense?
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:59 pm
by feyd
you may fall issue to the code caching, which can easily bugger up after a while. I remember deleting the .ncb and some others.. basically, you need to do a clean before building some times. Also, unhook the usage of afx.h.. there was some other header file it'd use that'd make some things screwy.. it's all about learning the quirks and how to fix them

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:39 pm
by alvinphp
I am not saying that a person that uses an IDE knows more then one that likes a plain text editor. I am saying that if you have 2 people with the same skills (and both know how to code without the debugger) the one that uses an IDE will code faster then the one that uses the text editor.