Rising flux of jerks? (or perhaps just angry help?)
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Charles256
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Rising flux of jerks? (or perhaps just angry help?)
Is it just me or has the number of , "RTFM?", "Google it!","Die.","I'm not even going to answer that."," I suggest you RTFM." responses risen as of late? What gives?
edit:
in all fairness..after you've tried telling them a few times and in exasperation you tell them to read the manual, that's understandable. but coming off as a jerk instead of just quietly posting the link?
double edit:
i'm probably guilty of what i'm complaining bout so to save someone the time...
:: looks at himself in the mirror and points:: You are a hypocrite!
edit:
in all fairness..after you've tried telling them a few times and in exasperation you tell them to read the manual, that's understandable. but coming off as a jerk instead of just quietly posting the link?
double edit:
i'm probably guilty of what i'm complaining bout so to save someone the time...
:: looks at himself in the mirror and points:: You are a hypocrite!
Simply posting "RTFM" isn't okay.
However, posting RTFM, and providing a link to the correct page in the online manual, which is all that is needed to solve the problem of the original poster is both okay, and appropriate.
While there are no stupid questions, there are certainly people asking questions without taking the time to google or look in the fine manual.
If its a straightforward "This is the page in the manual you needed", then I'm in support of an RTFM post - provided it has the link to the page.
However, posting RTFM, and providing a link to the correct page in the online manual, which is all that is needed to solve the problem of the original poster is both okay, and appropriate.
While there are no stupid questions, there are certainly people asking questions without taking the time to google or look in the fine manual.
If its a straightforward "This is the page in the manual you needed", then I'm in support of an RTFM post - provided it has the link to the page.
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I have seen a few threads where RTFM really does not help and it just puts people off posting again. I'll usually respond and give a decent (I hope
) answer.
But like Roja and Jcart have said.... sometimes the manual is all you need and the link to the relevant section is enough. Other times some people are just plain lazy (including me
)
But like Roja and Jcart have said.... sometimes the manual is all you need and the link to the relevant section is enough. Other times some people are just plain lazy (including me
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Charles256
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In past two weeks these are the threads that contain RTFM
viewtopic.php?t=40812 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40750 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40564 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40719 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40440 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40458 Acceptable
The last two were guys saying they should have RTFM...
Care to share what posts are bothering you?
d11wtq | Ok calm down guys
viewtopic.php?t=40812 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40750 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40564 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40719 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40440 Acceptable
viewtopic.php?t=40458 Acceptable
The last two were guys saying they should have RTFM...
Care to share what posts are bothering you?
d11wtq | Ok calm down guys
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Charles256
- DevNet Resident
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- John Cartwright
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-
Charles256
- DevNet Resident
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- Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:06 pm
- John Cartwright
- Site Admin
- Posts: 11470
- Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:10 am
- Location: Toronto
- Contact:
- Chris Corbyn
- Breakbeat Nuttzer
- Posts: 13098
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:57 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
My person thoughts are any form of "RTFM" in a reply that should to be friendly, helpful and informative is inappropriate and it goes against the spirit in which this forum was founded in a sense.
Rules or not, I don't see any sense in it. We've all been new, frustrated and lost before and I know aftering going through all that stress and taking the time to register on a forum and posting my problems, dealing with "RTFM" and other "holier than thou" responses isn't something I personally would want to deal with. So if that sort of tone is used consistently, it would discourage newbies from coming here as they would be horried they didn't "RTFM" in the right places or enough.
But to play the devil's advocate in responce to the point I bring up, I've been on the helping end of a lot of help threads and it is sometimes frustrating when a simple search and/or manual look up would solve the issue.
But to cross over to the other side of the debate again, as helpers I think it's best to take the friendly approach and just point them to the right direction. As odd as it may sound, some are not aware of how helpful the manual is, and let's face it, it's not exactly the most newbie-friendly documentation around. And also finding the right non-manual help is also something that may be of a challenge, Google or not. It takes the right keywords to find the right information and knows keyword terms might not be known. (eg. When I first started I never knew "cron" was that I should search for in regards to timing the execution of scripts)
So just posting a link and maybe taking it a step further and posting a link and also suggesting something that would help them help themselves would be nice.
I guess you could say "RTFM" is such a suggestion, but again for me it comes down to being friendly, and "read the f**king manual" is hardly that to me.
Rules or not, I don't see any sense in it. We've all been new, frustrated and lost before and I know aftering going through all that stress and taking the time to register on a forum and posting my problems, dealing with "RTFM" and other "holier than thou" responses isn't something I personally would want to deal with. So if that sort of tone is used consistently, it would discourage newbies from coming here as they would be horried they didn't "RTFM" in the right places or enough.
But to play the devil's advocate in responce to the point I bring up, I've been on the helping end of a lot of help threads and it is sometimes frustrating when a simple search and/or manual look up would solve the issue.
But to cross over to the other side of the debate again, as helpers I think it's best to take the friendly approach and just point them to the right direction. As odd as it may sound, some are not aware of how helpful the manual is, and let's face it, it's not exactly the most newbie-friendly documentation around. And also finding the right non-manual help is also something that may be of a challenge, Google or not. It takes the right keywords to find the right information and knows keyword terms might not be known. (eg. When I first started I never knew "cron" was that I should search for in regards to timing the execution of scripts)
So just posting a link and maybe taking it a step further and posting a link and also suggesting something that would help them help themselves would be nice.
I guess you could say "RTFM" is such a suggestion, but again for me it comes down to being friendly, and "read the f**king manual" is hardly that to me.
You can be friendly, post the link and say RTFM, it's called being facetious. If the person in need of help cannot recognize that, or doesn't appreciate you linking to the solution to their problem then it's questionable if they even deserve the help. Even if they did not know you were kidding around with them the fact that you helped them should be their cue to not take offense.
Facetious, eh? Well, that's in the eye of the beholder / easily open to interpretation by a reader.
There is a fine line between jokingly posting / saying something offensive and actualy meaning to offend someone.
From my experiences, you can often end up with many cases of a writer's tone and playful message being mixed up for something offensive because of what the message was preceived to mean by the reader. And since tone is something traditionally strongly influenced by a lot of physical things, such as voice and body language, since this is just the internet, a lot of things that might be tongue-in-cheek in reality often are look at as one finger-in-air (if that's even a term.. lol)
And the chances of that happening increase exponentially when english is not a language a reader has mastered, and since we post in a very international community with people at various english reading levels, this sort of thing becomes a sensitive issue in my eye.
There is a fine line between jokingly posting / saying something offensive and actualy meaning to offend someone.
From my experiences, you can often end up with many cases of a writer's tone and playful message being mixed up for something offensive because of what the message was preceived to mean by the reader. And since tone is something traditionally strongly influenced by a lot of physical things, such as voice and body language, since this is just the internet, a lot of things that might be tongue-in-cheek in reality often are look at as one finger-in-air (if that's even a term.. lol)
And the chances of that happening increase exponentially when english is not a language a reader has mastered, and since we post in a very international community with people at various english reading levels, this sort of thing becomes a sensitive issue in my eye.
It's pretty simply.. If i think it's a RTFM i don't bother to answer... Saves me and the OP a lot of frustration.
(Ok, sometimes i'll help a newcomer a bit more.. It takes a while to find out where to find what.. And how to search for it.. But knowing that he'll be able to help himself after that initial effort makes it worth it)
(Ok, sometimes i'll help a newcomer a bit more.. It takes a while to find out where to find what.. And how to search for it.. But knowing that he'll be able to help himself after that initial effort makes it worth it)