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Registered at SourceForge... Now What?

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:12 pm
by Ambush Commander
I just got my project approved at SourceForge (wow, that was easy) so now I need to know what exactly to do. The funny thing is, mostly everything I could do with SourceForge I can do now.

Here's my predicament:

1. Alpha quality software (about 105KB when tar'red) with complete Subversion change control history on a locally hosted SVN server that also hosts some other pet projects not ready for release
2. I have webhosting and a copy of the script running on my own server, as well as a tarballed copy of it ready for distribution

So... what do I do?

Regarding:

1. Yes, SourceForge only accepts CVS, so does this mean I nix the idea of using CVS altogether and simply use SourceForge as a filemirror, but...
2. Reading SourceForge's Service Listing most of them are inapplicable
* File Release System - well, extra mirrors can't hurt, but not necessary
* Donation System - ::laughs::
* Compile Farm - PHP man!
* CVS Service - The thorny issue.. is it worth it?
* Communication Tools - maybe the mailing list would be nice, but SourceForge's forums are pretty bad. And, of course I could always put a forum on my website.
* Publicity - Nice, but I know my demographic and SourceForge probably isn't the best place to reach out to them
* Project Web Service - once again, I have web hosting, so it's nice, but not necessary

If I do decide to use their CVS, what do I do? Do I "double" version my repository, having CVS and SVN versioning them simultaneously? How do I convert the history of a single folder in my repository (not the entire one) from SVN? Should I even bother (something researching probably can't help)?

Help please!

PS - If anyone is interested (like, they're a Wikipedian), the project is called CoLocus (Community Contingency Locus). Here's an live site for the program. Source code here: Source code

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:37 pm
by Deemo
my project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/coremp3/) used to use subversion, and that was the main reason i first hosted it elsewhere. but the fact of the matter is, if you want your project to be discovered, you may have to settle for less. You have a much higher chance of being discovered on sourceforge, but you may have to use CVS. Going from one to the other isnt that difficult :P

Re: Registered at SourceForge... Now What?

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:49 pm
by Roja
Ambush Commander wrote:I just got my project approved at SourceForge (wow, that was easy) so now I need to know what exactly to do. The funny thing is, mostly everything I could do with SourceForge I can do now.
Sourceforge is a fantastic resource for coordinating efforts, drawing in new resources, and making your code available to others.

So lets go through that list. First, you want to coordinate efforts. You can use their excellent mailing list software (mailman), which handles signup, mailing, archiving (public copies!), and even allows moderation. Mailing lists are fantastic for people trying to keep involved in a project, but unable to browse the web (for example, while working their day job).

Second, you want to draw in new resources. Coding by yourself limits your ability to you! By getting other people involved, you can get new ideas, new talent, and perhaps most importantly - more code contributions. The publicity features on Sourceforge are (like the mailing lists) one of their strongest benefits. It allows you to get the word out to thousands of developers that hey - you could use a {coder, project manager, translator}. It also lets you bring new users to your program - which is the final point.

By making your code available to others, you get more testing, more feedback, and yes, more people telling you how wonderful you are for coding it. (Hey, flattery DOES help). While you might develop and test only on an Apache server on a specific version of Linux, your users will be completely varied. You might have users testing on Xitami webserver, on Windows Vista, with an Oracle backend! Getting that kind of testing accomplished is usually far too difficult for a single person.

Those are the big three, and what I would focus on. However, lets hit your other points:

- CVS: Yes, SVN is better. But private SVN < Public CVS, yes? Giving other develpers access is a huge win, so use it. Yes, it means you'll have to say goodbye to the (much) better featureset of SVN, but in exchange for triple+ the development speed (four new developers?), I think its a very good trade.

- File release system: Having a central location, which is reliable, and not controlled by one maniacal interest (even if that interest is polite today) is a valuable commodity in any open project. Its more than a mirror - its a public interest file repository outside of the control of tyrants.

- Comm tools: Yes, SF's forums suck. However, they are another way to get feedback from users. If that means using horrible forums at least for some of the comms, its worth the pain. If nothing else, just open them, and if users post, reply with a useful answer, and ask them to use the main forums in the future (possibly phpbb?).

- Project Webservice: Again, its webservice on neutral ground. Thats > your host. The fact that they can handle a slashdotting without blinking is another reason its worth its weight in gold. Oh, and did I mention that a SF project linking to your main project page gives an instant google PR rating of 4? Thats hard to match.

Finally, I have absolutely no clue what your project does. I know its for wiki, but thats it. I don't use wiki often, so a better explanation (more detail) might help expand your 'target audience' quite a bit.

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:57 pm
by timvw
If you want SVN... I think you might want to check out berlios.de too ;)

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:33 pm
by Ambush Commander
Roja, that's a very convincing argument you've presented there. ;) Would anyone actually be interested in helping out my project :?:

Well, just a few minor objections...
Having a central location, which is reliable, and not controlled by one maniacal interest (even if that interest is polite today) is a valuable commodity in any open project. Its more than a mirror - its a public interest file repository outside of the control of tyrants.

[snip]

Again, its webservice on neutral ground. Thats > your host. The fact that they can handle a slashdotting without blinking is another reason its worth its weight in gold. Oh, and did I mention that a SF project linking to your main project page gives an instant google PR rating of 4? Thats hard to match.
I'm not exactly what you mean by a maniacal interest... I'm paying (at least, my Dad is paying) for the hosting. Supposedly SourceForge can get really slow too.
Finally, I have absolutely no clue what your project does. I know its for wiki, but thats it. I don't use wiki often, so a better explanation (more detail) might help expand your 'target audience' quite a bit.
I suppose I haven't gotten around to writing it yet... I wrote something really descriptive in the Registration form, but I suppose that isn't published.
If you want SVN... I think you might want to check out berlios.de too
That's funny. Only because OpenFacts, hosted on BerliOS, is part of the reason why my project exists: in fact, it seeks to replace one of its pages. I guess BerliOS is not as well known, and I know they cannot handle stuff like, say, Wikipedia going down for an hour with an error page linking to their page.
my project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/coremp3/) used to use subversion, and that was the main reason i first hosted it elsewhere. but the fact of the matter is, if you want your project to be discovered, you may have to settle for less. You have a much higher chance of being discovered on sourceforge, but you may have to use CVS. Going from one to the other isnt that difficult
That's good to hear. I'll do some research about it.

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:59 pm
by Roja
Ambush Commander wrote:Roja, that's a very convincing argument you've presented there. ;) Would anyone actually be interested in helping out my project
You'd be really surprised at what people will contribute to. The reasons and motivations are so incredibly diverse.. you just never know. But one thing is for sure, it definitely helps if they know what it is. :)

I still don't know what your project is/does. :)
Ambush Commander wrote:
Having a central location, which is reliable, and not controlled by one maniacal interest (even if that interest is polite today) is a valuable commodity in any open project. Its more than a mirror - its a public interest file repository outside of the control of tyrants.

[snip]

Again, its webservice on neutral ground. Thats > your host. The fact that they can handle a slashdotting without blinking is another reason its worth its weight in gold. Oh, and did I mention that a SF project linking to your main project page gives an instant google PR rating of 4? Thats hard to match.
I'm not exactly what you mean by a maniacal interest... I'm paying (at least, my Dad is paying) for the hosting. Supposedly SourceForge can get really slow too.
Good point, I should have qualified this quite a bit. In other projects, and I'm not going to point fingers, there have been hostile takeovers by people that just months before would have been lauded as excellent leaders. By making 'home turf' a neutral zone, you encourage a sense of safety for people that want to contribute.

Think of it from the other point of view - a paranoid developer. He sees you, wanting him to spend all his time coding this great solution to a problem he cares about, driving page views to your page, and at any point, you can shut him out. You can use the homebase site to insult him, and even remove the copyright notice (illegal!) showing that he helped.

It's simply a very nice-to-have.
Ambush Commander wrote:
Finally, I have absolutely no clue what your project does. I know its for wiki, but thats it. I don't use wiki often, so a better explanation (more detail) might help expand your 'target audience' quite a bit.
I suppose I haven't gotten around to writing it yet... I wrote something really descriptive in the Registration form, but I suppose that isn't published.
Yeah, the description on the sourceforge project page is unclear to me. Still would love to know, so update us when you write it. :)
Ambush Commander wrote:
If you want SVN... I think you might want to check out berlios.de too
That's funny. Only because OpenFacts, hosted on BerliOS, is part of the reason why my project exists: in fact, it seeks to replace one of its pages. I guess BerliOS is not as well known, and I know they cannot handle stuff like, say, Wikipedia going down for an hour with an error page linking to their page.
Yeah, I have a project on berlios, and while their technology support is really cutting edge, and their criteria is pretty reasonable, they just don't have the stability that is needed. I'm fairly happy on gna.org , which has some fairly substantial resources. Its no sourceforge, but it has held up nicely for me, and reliably too. (It does offer subversion).

As a side note, Sourceforge plans on implementing SVN support, and I have been selected to be on the beta team, so I'll be one of the first people shouting about how great it is to finally have it. :P

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:57 pm
by Ambush Commander
Good point, I should have qualified this quite a bit. In other projects, and I'm not going to point fingers, there have been hostile takeovers by people that just months before would have been lauded as excellent leaders. [snip]
Very good. I understand now.
still don't know what your project is/does.
I reworded the description to be a little clearer. Is there a place to place an extended description, or is that just Documentation?
Yeah, I have a project on berlios, and while their technology support is really cutting edge, and their criteria is pretty reasonable, they just don't have the stability that is needed. I'm fairly happy on gna.org , which has some fairly substantial resources. Its no sourceforge, but it has held up nicely for me, and reliably too. (It does offer subversion).
I agree with the stability but not cutting edge. Maybe I'm biased because I only look at one aspect (OpenFacts), but they use a prehistoric version of MediaWiki and can't be bothered to upgrade.
As a side note, Sourceforge plans on implementing SVN support, and I have been selected to be on the beta team, so I'll be one of the first people shouting about how great it is to finally have it.
Can't wait. ;) In the mean time, should I just nix the previous history and commit the current state of my repository and stop updating the corresponding local SVN repository? Maintaining both repositories would only hold up while I stay solo: once other people start committing into the CVS it could get hairy.

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:41 pm
by Roja
Ambush Commander wrote:I reworded the description to be a little clearer. Is there a place to place an extended description, or is that just Documentation?
Hmm. Its a little more clear, but now the description makes me wonder what it will do that an offsite forum couldnt do?
Ambush Commander wrote:I agree with the stability but not cutting edge. Maybe I'm biased because I only look at one aspect (OpenFacts), but they use a prehistoric version of MediaWiki and can't be bothered to upgrade.
Yeah, its definitely not consistent across the full spectrum of their software. The SVN support was a sweet, sweet bribe that made me sing their praises. Loudly, I sing. :)
Ambush Commander wrote:Can't wait. ;) In the mean time, should I just nix the previous history and commit the current state of my repository and stop updating the corresponding local SVN repository? Maintaining both repositories would only hold up while I stay solo: once other people start committing into the CVS it could get hairy.
I would probably do a "mini-release", and put that into the CVS. Once I did that, I would continue working with the SVN until I got an additional developer that was interested. When that happens, THEN I would switch. Until then, think of the CVS as an enticement for potential devs.

I may not be the poster child for freedom software in this sense, but I loves me my SVN, and I wouldn't give it up unless I had a good reason. (And yes, a second dev is definitely a good reason).

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:45 pm
by Ambush Commander
Hmm. Its a little more clear, but now the description makes me wonder what it will do that an offsite forum couldnt do?
Yeah, that's going to require a longer explanation (centered around Specialized and Registration Free. Where would I put that?
I would probably do a "mini-release", and put that into the CVS. Once I did that, I would continue working with the SVN until I got an additional developer that was interested. When that happens, THEN I would switch. Until then, think of the CVS as an enticement for potential devs.

I may not be the poster child for freedom software in this sense, but I loves me my SVN, and I wouldn't give it up unless I had a good reason. (And yes, a second dev is definitely a good reason).
Good idea. I can't thank you enough for your counsel. Once I get some time, I'll get this SourceForge project running. :D

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:52 pm
by Roja
Ambush Commander wrote:Yeah, that's going to require a longer explanation (centered around Specialized and Registration Free. Where would I put that?
I'd do it as a webpage on the project webspace.