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Best Browser
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:53 pm
by Luke
I like FF best by far, but Opera is awesome too.
Re: Best Browser
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:00 pm
by foobar
Opera blows. It doesn't support my fancy CSS 2.0 *pout*.
[edit] I voted for FF.
Re: Best Browser
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:01 pm
by Luke
foobar wrote:Opera blows. It doesn't support my fancy CSS 2.0 *pout*.
Well... let me re-state my opinion of it.
I just started using it today due to the fact that I am no longer allowed to use FF at work. So far, I like it.
Re: Best Browser
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:30 pm
by BDKR
foobar wrote:Opera blows. It doesn't support my fancy CSS 2.0 *pout*.
[edit] I voted for FF.
I wouldn't say that it out and out "blows" (LOL!) but yes, it has had some funkmaster JS issues at times.
However, I have an easier time developing JS stuff for it then IE. Now there's a hunk of crap!
Re: Best Browser
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:48 pm
by AKA Panama Jack
foobar wrote:Opera blows. It doesn't support my fancy CSS 2.0 *pout*.
[edit] I voted for FF.
Actually I think you find that Opera does.
You do know that Opera has a number of the authors and co-authors for CSS1, CSS2 and CSS3 working for them on CSS. I would think the authors and co-authors would know what they are doing with the CSS code in Opera.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:12 pm
by jwalsh
Any web pro needs to know all browsers. I personally use FF for my everyday browsing, but anyone building a site for a specific browser is not going to be competitive.
Re: Best Browser
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:25 pm
by Roja
AKA Panama Jack wrote:Actually I think you find that Opera does.
Nope. There are quite a few that it doesn't. Here's a partial list:
Text-shadow, some of text-align, visibility: collapse (this is a really hurtful one), and @font-face.
There are others (
http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/ ) that it doesn't support either. (Before anyone asks - yes, other browsers do support these). However..
AKA Panama Jack wrote:You do know that Opera has a number of the authors and co-authors for CSS1, CSS2 and CSS3 working for them on CSS. I would think the authors and co-authors would know what they are doing with the CSS code in Opera.

Its not a matter of not knowing. Not by a long shot.
Its a matter of development time, and time to do it *right*. Opera is primarily focused on *small* footprint browsing. Over 1/4th of their profit derives from cellphone licensees, so while firefox can be reasonably fast for a PC, Opera has to be *insanely* fast/small - because even a little slow/big on a PC is unacceptably bad on a cellphone.
Doing CSS right, AND doing it in a small footprint is very challenging. A good example is the Acid2 test. The primary author and multiple members of the team who coordinated to author it work for Opera. Yet they still haven't passed it. That has nothing to do with their knowledge or talent. It has everything to do with development timing. Opera8 came out literally two days after the Acid2 test was published, so all the work on it is in the Opera9 tree. (Which by the way, if you haven't tried it, YOU SHOULD).
Opera is fast, has lots of nice features, and has *better support for css than most browsers*, but no - its not perfect.
Without extensions, Opera pales in comparison to Firefox in my book. I use both now, but Firefox is still my primary browser.
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:46 pm
by Ree
omg I see a vote for IE...
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:14 pm
by Luke
Ree wrote:omg I see a vote for IE...
ew... gross!
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:44 pm
by Chris Corbyn
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:Ree wrote:omg I see a vote for IE...
ew... gross!
It does have it's passionate users.... probably those that write client-side apps specific to MSIE using proprietary code
I love FF... I'm just about to install 1.5. Konqueror, well personally I dislike it... it has some CSS issues. I generally test in Opera as part of my spectrum of browsers but I haven't used it for general web browsing *ever* so I can't comment too much

Safari... well, we'll wait and see after xmas when I get my Mac

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:21 pm
by RobertPaul
Firefox for me. I dig the development tools (DOM Inspector, Web Developer toolbar, Colorzilla and some other bookmarklet scripts) and all my extensions too much to switch to Opera. I do like Opera. But I can't give up Firefox.
But frankly, I don't care what you use as long as it isn't IE.
Re: Best Browser
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:51 pm
by AKA Panama Jack
Roja wrote:AKA Panama Jack wrote:Actually I think you find that Opera does.
Nope. There are quite a few that it doesn't. Here's a partial list:
Text-shadow, some of text-align, visibility: collapse (this is a really hurtful one), and @font-face.
You might want to do a little checking into Firefox 1.5.

It's not 100% CSS2 compliant either.
Roja wrote:Doing CSS right, AND doing it in a small footprint is very challenging. A good example is the Acid2 test. The primary author and multiple members of the team who coordinated to author it work for Opera. Yet they still haven't passed it.
You really need to keep up on the changes with browsers. Opera is the only one that even comes close to passing the Acid2 test. Firefox 1.5 fails the Acid2 test much worse than Opera 8. Check out Opera 9's rendering of the Acid 2 test.
http://my.opera.com/Aedan/homes/files/15Capture-1.png
It will probably get compliance by the final release of Opera 9.
Roja wrote:Without extensions, Opera pales in comparison to Firefox in my book. I use both now, but Firefox is still my primary browser.
Honestly I haven't found an extention for Firefox that Opera either can't do already or would even need.

Plus it is far easier to have one file (Opera) you have to find and install than over half a dozen extensions along with Firefox.
Oh, and Opera's Plugins can work just like Firefox's Extensions so there really isn't much difference there.
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:51 pm
by shiznatix
firefox. if it was not for noscript and adblock i would be lost and dead and if i was not dead i would put multiple bullets in my head on many occasions (im talented and love those plugins more than life itself)
Re: Best Browser
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:10 pm
by m3mn0n
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I just started using it today due to the fact that I am no longer allowed to use FF at work.
You know why they instilled that policy?
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:21 pm
by AKA Panama Jack
Might be because there are alot of security holes still in Firefox 1.5 and no date as to when they will be fixed.
Damn, I just found out that they made Opera totally free a few weeks ago. You had to buy it in the past if you didn't want the advertising bar enabled. Damned cool, that was the number one reason I heard from people who didn't use Opera. They didn't want to buy it and went with Firefox because it was free and not because it was better.
Now Opera is totally free just like Firefox.
