My mum built a website in it, and there is no way she'd have been able to bust out notepad and get down with the HTML.
I wouldn't use it, but it has it's place.
<edit>This was split from the Firefox topic. I didn't just start a thead with that
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No it isn't.Roja wrote: Frontpage is actually a decent GUI-based webpage editor
Ew. I won't dignify that with a longer response.Roja wrote:I used to use Frontpage.
Good advice. I will give that a shot. Thanks.[/quote]Roja wrote:Make it an easy choice for him, by factoring in the costs correctly. Start describing pages as compliant or non-compliant, and for non-compliant pages you are asked to maintain, add a 50% increase in time, and attribute it to compliance problems. Then he will begin to associate "non-compliant" with "harder to maintain", and eventually, he will recognize that he will save money in the long run by making the code compliant in the first place.
There's 5, the other 5 consisted of opinions and irrelevant things, I do agree frontpage is not designed for PHP, but thats not what we're talking about, Roja said its a good GUI based editor. It is good at what it was designed to do is what he was saying, not that it is good at what you want it to do.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:1. It changes your code without asking
2. It requires extensions on the server
3. It is almost impossible to create readable code with it
4. It messes with your php
5. It messes with your comments
6. It creates horrible pages
7. It gives morons the idea that they can create web pages
8. It makes morons think making web sites is as easy as opening a program and whipping up a site
9. Most if it is IE & Windows specific.
10. It sucks majorly.
There's 10.
I consider my opinions facts. lol.There's 5, the other 5 consisted of opinions and irrelevant things, I do agree frontpage is not designed for PHP, but thats not what we're talking about, Roja said its a good GUI based editor. It is good at what it was designed to do is what he was saying, not that it is good at what you want it to do.
Even though we respect your opinion, we do not consider them facts, nor does anyone consider anyones opinions facts. Lets get back on topic.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I consider my opinions facts. lol.There's 5, the other 5 consisted of opinions and irrelevant things, I do agree frontpage is not designed for PHP, but thats not what we're talking about, Roja said its a good GUI based editor. It is good at what it was designed to do is what he was saying, not that it is good at what you want it to do.
LOL okJcart wrote:Even though we respect your opinion, we do not consider them facts, nor does anyone consider anyones opinions facts. Lets get back on topic.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I consider my opinions facts. lol.There's 5, the other 5 consisted of opinions and irrelevant things, I do agree frontpage is not designed for PHP, but thats not what we're talking about, Roja said its a good GUI based editor. It is good at what it was designed to do is what he was saying, not that it is good at what you want it to do.
You can prevent that. You have to set it in the options. Tools > Page Options > HTML Source, Preserve existing HTML.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:1. It changes your code without asking
Only for the FP-specific items, and there are only 6 of those - none of which are particularly useful. But yes, for those, you do actually need extensions on the server.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:2. It requires extensions on the server
If you do preserve existing html, it makes very readable code. You can set virtually all the options for its style. Read more: http://www.seoconsultants.com/frontpage ... ptions.asp .The Ninja Space Goat wrote:3. It is almost impossible to create readable code with it
Its an html editor, not a php editor, silly. You can't open a php file in it by default, so if you tell it to open the wrong file type, guess who made the mistake?The Ninja Space Goat wrote:4. It messes with your php
See above. Not true if you tell it not to.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:5. It messes with your comments
I've made *incredible* pages in Frontpage. Its a tool - you can use it for good or evil.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:6. It creates horrible pages
Anyone can create a webpage. Anyone can use a computer. Your opinion of people is your own.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:7. It gives morons the idea that they can create web pages
It is that easy.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:8. It makes morons think making web sites is as easy as opening a program and whipping up a site
This one you are 100% correct on.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:9. Most if it is IE & Windows specific.
Opinion, and I disagree.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:10. It sucks majorly.
Grim... wrote:FrontPage is good.
My mum built a website in it, and there is no way she'd have been able to bust out notepad and get down with the HTML.
I've made plenty. The key is configuring the program correctly.foobar wrote:But seriously, FrontPage is far from good. I've never seen a standards compliant website made in it.
Once again, for Frontpage, you just have to configure it - its only *one* checkbox. If you can't be bothered to click one checkbox, I can't really take you seriously.foobar wrote:I also hate programs that barge into your source-code, destroying everything in sight wenever you decide to use the WYSIWYG editor.
FP2003 has an option to disable that, and for older versions, there is a free plugin on Microsoft's site: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... 16730A0894foobar wrote:Not to forget when they add <meta http-equiv="Generator" value="Microsoft FrontPage 6.0"> in your <head>.
Then Frontpage isn't what you are looking for. I return to my original comment - Frontpage is a fairly good WYSIWYG editor. Just because you don't like WYSIWYG doesn't change its status as a good one!foobar wrote:Plus, WYSIWYG editors are just a pain in the ass. Reason why I type it myself.
Actually, FP2003 does an excellent job of making compliant code by default. Its definitely designed to do so.foobar wrote:Frontpage isn't designed to make complient code (although I bet it could - I'm going to try when I get home) - it's designed to easily make websites that work well for ~90% of people on the web.
I don't believe you.Roja wrote:Okay, so that people don't think these have no answer..
You can prevent that. You have to set it in the options. Tools > Page Options > HTML Source, Preserve existing HTML.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:1. It changes your code without asking
Only for the FP-specific items, and there are only 6 of those - none of which are particularly useful. But yes, for those, you do actually need extensions on the server.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:2. It requires extensions on the server
If you do preserve existing html, it makes very readable code. You can set virtually all the options for its style. Read more: http://www.seoconsultants.com/frontpage ... ptions.asp .The Ninja Space Goat wrote:3. It is almost impossible to create readable code with it
Its an html editor, not a php editor, silly. You can't open a php file in it by default, so if you tell it to open the wrong file type, guess who made the mistake?The Ninja Space Goat wrote:4. It messes with your php
See above. Not true if you tell it not to.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:5. It messes with your comments
I've made *incredible* pages in Frontpage. Its a tool - you can use it for good or evil.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:6. It creates horrible pages![]()
No... anyone can create a web page in FrontPage, and not anyone can use a computer most people think they can, but they are better at breaking them.Anyone can create a webpage. Anyone can use a computer. Your opinion of people is your own.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:7. It gives morons the idea that they can create web pages
It is only that easy because of FrontPage, and you can not create good websites in frontpage. I don't care what you say. Show me one.It is that easy.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:8. It makes morons think making web sites is as easy as opening a program and whipping up a site
Man... I don't care what you say WYSIWYG editors (in general) suck. Unless you know html, and are using a WYSIWYG that does not mess with anything you're doing (Dreamweaver) you shouldn't even be messing with web design. This results in websites like this...This one you are 100% correct on.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:9. Most if it is IE & Windows specific.
Opinion, and I disagree.The Ninja Space Goat wrote:10. It sucks majorly.
But hey, you had one solid reason, and one halfway solid reason.
I stopped using it because a convicted monopolist is using it to help extend their domination in multiple markets, which you didn't list.
As a program though, its fairly well done.